Refereeing decisions

[boyo]

There is often much criticism of the referee, but apparently less directed at the player(s).
Referees aren't infallible, yet often they have to be perfect in some peoples eyes.

Referees don't:-
kick out on the full
drop the ball
knock-on
throw forward passes
head-high tackle
throw in crooked to lineouts
feed in crooked to scrums
enter a ruck from the side
handle the ball in a ruck
be offside
bind incorrectly in a scrum
etc.

Referees don't infringe, players do.

How many points wouldn't be scored against a team if players didn't infringe?

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/8719136/Marshall-Cut-the-Super-Rugby-refs-some-slack

It's time for a little perspective, and a little empathy. It's time, I reckon, that we ease off this assault on rugby's referees.
No, you are not imagining this. I am going to bat for referees everywhere for the job they do under the most trying of circumstances. And, yes, I hang my head in shame for all the verbals I've given them in my time.
Why now, you might ask? Well, you could say I saw the light in my second game of club rugby on Saturday, and it's given me a much better appreciation for the thankless job the man with the whistle does.

cont..

 

[yourmatesam]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/8719136/Marshall-Cut-the-Super-Rugby-refs-some-slack

Justin Marshall keeps going up in my estimation. His analysis of the game is balanced, he has a good understanding of the laws of the game, he admits when he's wrong on air and now this. Awesome.

 

[boyo]

I realise that my viewpoint may be unpopular with some.

It's much easier to blame the referee than the player(s).

 

[Shiggins]

Justin Marshall keeps going up in my estimation. His analysis of the game is balanced, he has a good understanding of the laws of the game, he admits when he's wrong on air and now this. Awesome.

Well he is wrong a lot lol

 

[elementfreak]

I realise that my viewpoint may be unpopular with some.

It's much easier to blame the referee than the player(s).

And that is such a cop out. If you have a look at mistakes alone, referees will make a mistake a lot less then every player out there.

 

[Bullrush]

And that is such a cop out. If you have a look at mistakes alone, referees will make a mistake a lot less then every player out there.

Isn't that point boyo was making??

 

[boyo]

Isn't that point boyo was making??

Thanks Bullrush.

 

[elementfreak]

Isn't that point boyo was making??

Yeah, however I read it as "it's easier to blame the ref so that's what I do", if it wasn't intended that way then I apologise.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I have to say that the introduction and use of technology to assist on Referees make decisions in rugby has worked far better and less controversially than the DRS system has been used in Cricket, despite the occasional blunder in our game by the TMO.

 

[Rob42]

I think rugby has benefited from the previous experience of rugby league in using the technology, making for a smoother transition as the use has increased.

The fundamental flaw in the cricket system is giving the players a say in choosing reviews. It's so against the culture of cricket to see batsmen standing there, discussing whether to accept the umpire's decision.

 

[Refabit]

Unfortunately most of the commentators know very little of the Laws of the game (not sure why when its their jobs) but have a ready-made podium to express their views. Justin Mashall in particular.
What irks me is when refs cop a spray when they are clearly in the right. Its one thing suffering for mistakes, but entirely another when they have not made one.
Unfortunately the great unwashed at home only think "he must have got it wrong".
Also 100% of Club and school referees only ref for the love of the game. Marshall got that right.

 

[Gnostic]

Justin Marshall keeps going up in my estimation. His analysis of the game is balanced, he has a good understanding of the laws of the game, he admits when he's wrong on air and now this. Awesome.

I'll agree he has become one of the best SH commentators. I wonder if his new found enlightenment extends to apologising to Andre Watson for his hissy fit in the Super 12 Final in Christchurch against the Brumbies. I am totally positive that had it been anywhere but Chch and the final he would have been sent off for the display.

 

[Rassie]

My comment actually refers to the lifting part of the tackle. There was no reason for Lance to lift the player in the first place. Lance was lucky that Hattingh had already lost ball and could break his fall with his hand and also that whole tackle seemed to happen in slow motion. There is lesson to be learnt here and that is that one must be very carefull when you decide to lift a player of the ground and that to me is the major difference between the Lance tackle and the Mapoe tackle. There is simply nothing that Mapoe could have done differently.

The Five ‘Tell’ Points of a Spear tackle. One missing its not a spear
1. Tackler is stationary.
2. Grasps the ball carrier below the hips.
3. Turns the player straight up.
4. Turns the player beyond the horizontal.
5. Drops or drives the player to the ground

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The Five ‘Tell’ Points of a Spear tackle. One missing its not a spear
1. Tackler is stationary.
2. Grasps the ball carrier below the hips.
3. Turns the player straight up.
4. Turns the player beyond the horizontal.
5. Drops or drives the player to the ground

Don't agree with 1 at all because a person can be moving and deliberately lift a player in a tackle.
2 would only matter if intention was part of the test.
I don't think 5 is a pre-requisite either: the point is getting a player in a position where his first contact with the ground is his head or upper body.
Law 10.4 (j)

 

[Rassie]

Don't agree with 1 at all because a person can be moving and deliberately lift a player in a tackle.
2 would only matter if intention was part of the test.
I don't think 5 is a pre-requisite either: the point is getting a player in a position where his first contact with the ground is his head or upper body.
Law 10.4 (j)

I would have been disappointed if you did agree. As its open to interpretation. The IRB have defined some stuff in the law books which makes some laws more clearer. For most they have not. Different aspect might make us sees a tackle differently. For example in SA in derbies we might have a totally different view on some of the play as some see some incidents a foul play others see it as Botha clearing out a midget in the ruck.

But lets break it down.

Tackler is stationary

Almost impossible to commit a tackle when running at any real speed.
Tackler will almost always be head-‐on, or clos to head-‐on, to the ball carrier.

Tackler comes to a stop, gets in position, waits for the ball career arrive. To grap him by the waste and higher up is extremely difficult to lift a player

He grabs below the waste lifted and do the tipping action hence tip tackle. Then gravity takes over and its out of your hands

 

[Zander]

Big difference to making a physical and mental mistake.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I would have been disappointed if you did agree. As its open to interpretation. The IRB have defined some stuff in the law books which makes some laws more clearer. For most they have not. Different aspect might make us sees a tackle differently. For example in SA in derbies we might have a totally different view on some of the play as some see some incidents a foul play others see it as Botha clearing out a midget in the ruck.

But lets break it down.

Tackler is stationary

Almost impossible to commit a tackle when running at any real speed.
Tackler will almost always be head-‐on, or clos to head-‐on, to the ball carrier.

Tackler comes to a stop, gets in position, waits for the ball career arrive. To grap him by the waste and higher up is extremely difficult to lift a player

He grabs below the waste lifted and do the tipping action hence tip tackle. Then gravity takes over and its out of your hands

Much of this I do not agree with but i will let it go to make this point.
I suspect that what the authorities think is that its pretty hard to commit a lifting tackle unless there is upward (lifting) force imparted to the tacklee.
Thus, players should adjust their tackling style to remove any lifting element. The odd one may still get through but the vast majority of dangerous tackles will be eliminated.
If you decide you want to lift you take the risk of a red card.
Like anything rugby should be played so as to minimise the chance of injury - they will happen but if the essential fabric of the game can accommodate small changes to make it safer what rational person would oppose them?
The argument that this is not how the game was once played holds no water: should we revert to tries being worth 0 points?

 

[Rassie]

Much of this I do not agree with but i will let it go to make this point.
I suspect that what the authorities think is that its pretty hard to commit a lifting tackle unless there is upward (lifting) force imparted to the tacklee.
Thus, players should adjust their tackling style to remove any lifting element. The odd one may still get through but the vast majority of dangerous tackles will be eliminated.
If you decide you want to lift you take the risk of a red card.
Like anything rugby should be played so as to minimise the chance of injury - they will happen but if the essential fabric of the game can accommodate small changes to make it safer what rational person would oppose them?
The argument that this is not how the game was once played holds no water: should we revert to tries being worth 0 points?

Its simply too difficult to bend over low enough to grasp the ball carrier "on the fly" between the knees and the hips, and then lift him up at the same time.

Come to a stop, or almost to a stop and Grasp the ball carrier below the hips. Can you see it below?

Turn him upside-down or let the body weight of the player turn themselves upside-down. Do you it below?

Let him go or drive him to the ground.

See all the aspects of a tip tackle. Lifting a player or tackling him of his feet is not a spear tackle. THat is a dangerous tackle which the sanction is a yellow card. a Spear tackle is red

 

[Bullrush]

I have to agree with Rassie. It would be pretty difficult to spear tackle anyone while running and/or by picking them up above the waist.

It would start to look like a rock bottom....