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Refereeing decisions

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
An 'interesting' reply, Hawko. EOD and Higgers rolling around on top of each other being likened to "ugly brutality"?!
The "serial offernder" reference is after Walsh failed to assert his authority on the Reds v Brumbies match, when the TMO said 'nothing to see here' after Steve Moore, (a person I admire and respect as a player), was allowed to stay on the field after throwing a very public punch. Last Saturday, as you say, Walsh proceeded with play, but only long enough for him to be told by the TMO to cancel a penalty to the Reds, spend ages determining the contents of a melee, then send EOD off and award a penalty to the Rebel in front of the posts! A stronger referee would have said: "sorry mate, I've moved on, if you've seen something, send it to the Match Review Committee". I say again, the 23,000 fans were there to watch a Rugby match, not a lengthy adjudication between two Match Officials. As soon as that penalty was awarded, fans started streaming out of Suncorp Stadium.
To make you happy, I shall substitute the word 'serial' for 'repeat'. Walsh can be deemed a 'repeat offender' in that he didn't have the strength to say "no" to the TMO, in two Reds matches, where both decisions were critical to the final result of each match.
Last Saturday, neither team was dominant in both defence or attack, so a 27-27 result would have been appropriate.
My final comment on this topic is to say that Mrs Doug and I have been Reds members for 9 years. This year, we only have 'three-match memberships', the last match being the Reds v Warratahs. If Steve Walsh is allocated the "Field Referee" job, we wont be making the trip up from the Gold Coast, and next year we will probably subscribe to Foxtel.

When you get to the 'wrong side of 65', I can assure you that you don't go looking for more ways to load up on stress!!
 

yourmatesam

Desmond Connor (43)
Walsh was in a tough spot either way.

He can't ignore the advice of the TMO, he said that he couldn't see the fingers in the eye from where he was standing and had no choice but to have faith in the TMO. Once he and the TMO started talking, there had to be an outcome and the only outcome that would be acceptable was a penalty. Whether it was the correct decision to send EOD is not Walsh's call, he's made that call on the advice of the TMO.

If he had ignored the TMO advice, it would have been the Rebels that would be blowing up about ignoring the TMO. Rugby is a game of grey areas and it's just part of the game.

All in all, I agree that the whole process is a bit of a fuck up, but there's nothing that we can do about it now.
 

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
James Horwill off to face the SANZAR wheel of misfortune for his comments after the Rebels match.

SANZAR has completed an investigation into comments made by James Horwill in an on-field post-match interview following the Reds v Rebels match played at Suncorp Stadium on 17 May 2014.
The comment in question attributed to Mr Horwill is: "In the end, once again we were robbed by a stupid refereeing decision."
SANZAR has referred the matter for a hearing in accordance with SANZAR's Disciplinary Rules.
In bringing this complaint, SANZAR will allege that the comments made by Mr Horwill amount to Misconduct under Rule 10 of the SANZAR Disciplinary Rules and breaches the SANZAR Code of Conduct Section 8.3 (3) of the Super Rugby Tournament Manual, which reads as follows:
Section 8.3 (e) "All persons shall not publish or cause to be published criticism of the manner in which a Match Official handled a match."
The matter will be heard by SANZAR Judicial Officer Nigel Hampton QC (Quade Cooper) via teleconference on Tuesday 27 May 2014: 5:30pm (AEST), 7:30pm (NZST), 9:30am (SAST).
SANZAR will be making no further comment until this process has been completed.
 

Bairdy

Peter Fenwicke (45)
James Horwill off to face the SANZAR wheel of misfortune for his comments after the Rebels match.
Ha, this is the same QC (Quade Cooper) that exonerated Horwill of any wrongdoing after he 'accidentally' stomped on Lions player Alun Wyn Jones.

I doubt he'll get anything for the comment - except a fine maybe.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Considering SANZAR exonerated Ed this could get interesting.. Technically Horwill could say he's speaking the truth.
 

Bruwheresmycar

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I doubt the SANZAR protocols distinguish between true and untrue referee abuse.

The thing is the refs aren't allowed the same forum so it's unfair regardless.

And it goes against the tradition and spirit of the game.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Interview with Nigel Owens where he talks about the NRC, overuse of the TMO, Scrums, pundits lack of knowledge of the laws, refs making mistakes, the advantage law and concussion.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/617362/

It's a very good listen.
Thanks. Don't agree with Owens' p.o.v. but it's worth a listen.

(Also for other posters, I'd recommend NOT clicking on RTE's pc-cleaner messages for RegServo, etc. It's just a registry cleaner and not malware or anything but it's a bit of a scam IMO, being downloadable freely, but NOT free to use. There are better options).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
There was an interesting moment in the second half of the Sharks vs Stormers match.

The Stormers (I think it was) kicked the ball into touch and then were penalised because some of their players were never put offside but advanced towards the lineout position.

I thought that was an incorrect decision but I'm wondering exactly what the law is.

When you are offisde in front of the kicker, you only have to retire if you are inside the 10m of where the ball is going to land. Otherwise you're entitled to hold your ground until you are put onside. You are not allowed to advance whilst offside.

When the ball is kicked out of play, surely there is no longer offside and onside. Players are free to do what they want (i.e. you shouldn't need to be put onside by an advancing player if the ball is out of play).

Where it gets tricky is at what point is the offside player allowed to advance towards the lineout? Is it once the ball crosses the touch line or is it only once the assistant referee has raised their flag to signify that the ball has gone out?
 

HJ Nelson

Trevor Allan (34)
Staff member
The 'offside' players can't interfere with a quick lineout throw.
If there is no quick throw it shouldn't be an issue.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The 'offside' players can't interfere with a quick lineout throw.
If there is no quick throw it shouldn't be an issue.

Where does it say that an offside player can't interfere with a quick throw in? Where does it say that the player is still offside once the ball is out of play?
 

ruckhudson

Peter Burge (5)
this extract is from the ARU game management guidlines for community rugby.
OFF (Folau Fainga'a)sideplayersmustbedealtwithevenwhentheballlookslikeitwillgointotouchbecausea quickthrowmaybeanoption.Oncetheballisintouch,offsidenolongerappliesandoffsideplayers maymoveforwardtowardalineoutorwhereaquickthrowisbeingattempted.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Considering SANZAR exonerated Ed this could get interesting.. Technically Horwill could say he's speaking the truth.


Doesn't matter - public criticism of the officials in any capacity brings the game into disrepute. If he'd said "A decision goes against us" instead of "bad refereeing" then he would have been OK.

I haven't seen the whole game in either case, but two things shit me from the weekend:

Mike Fraser - when the Honey Badger cut down MacNicol short of the tryline, and the AR put his flag up, Fraser went up to him and asked if he wanted to check for a try. Clear indication that he was thinking FOR the attacking team rather than supporting his AR.

Chris Pollock - similarly, when the Tahs scored against the Chiefs, he immediately wanted to check whether Foley was in touch back on the other side of the park a phase back. Maybe this came out of Folau holding Horrell on the previous try but FFS mate if the AR didn't put his flag up, then play on!

The TMO is making everyone gunshy, and taking too much time in the game. Why didn't he go back for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) being taken out?
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
this extract is from the ARU game management guidlines for community rugby.
OFF (Folau Fainga'a)side players must be dealt with even when the ball looks like it will go into touch because a quick throw may be an option. Once the ball is in touch, offside no longer applies and offside players may move forward toward a lineout or where a quick throw is being attempted.


Fixed!

In other words - all laws for general play apply until the ball is in touch.
 
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