Refereeing decisions

[Ignoto]

And I just think an ugly incident like that (as opposed to a mistimed clean out) gives World Rugby more reason to dig in their heels on this issue.

You watch, all it will take next year, is for the Irish to cop a red card like the Welsh did in 2011, there will be a full on meltdown, riots will happen and the rules change to be 20 minute red cards.

 

[Drew]

You watch, all it will take next year, is for the Irish to cop a red card like the Welsh did in 2011, there will be a full on meltdown, riots will happen and the rules change to be 20 minute red cards.

We can only hope.

 

[Wilson]

You watch, all it will take next year, is for the Irish to cop a red card like the Welsh did in 2011, there will be a full on meltdown, riots will happen and the rules change to be 20 minute red cards.

That would be unprecedented, the Irish making it past the quarter finals.

 

[Adam84]

That penalty for the ruck clearance by Slipper and Lonergan in the lead-up to the disallowed JOC (James O'Connor) try.

How do you clear a player out who isn’t supporting their weight like that scenario.

 

[John S]

That penalty for the ruck clearance by Slipper and Lonergan in the lead-up to the disallowed JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) try.

How do you clear a player out who isn’t supporting their weight like that scenario.

Not sure, but I thought I saw Argentina do a similar clean out in the second half that didn't get called. But I can't recall where. If it was the same where is the consistency?

 

[Bullrush]

That penalty for the ruck clearance by Slipper and Lonergan in the lead-up to the disallowed JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) try.

How do you clear a player out who isn’t supporting their weight like that scenario.

Yeah…it was a shit call.
I still wouldn’t have allowed the try.

 

[LeCheese]

Not sure, but I thought I saw Argentina do a similar clean out in the second half that didn't get called. But I can't recall where. If it was the same where is the consistency?

From what I recall of the chats between ref, TMO, and Slipper, the compounding issue was the leg lift by Lonergan. Might’ve looked worse on the field than it actually was.

 

[PhilClinton]

From what I recall of the chats between ref, TMO, and Slipper, the compounding issue was the leg lift by Lonergan. Might’ve looked worse on the field than it actually was.

The other player (either Holloway or Longeran I think) didn't actually do a leg lift, but made contact with the legs which along with the angle of the cleanout meant the player went arse over tit. Can't believe the TMO ruled it like they did.

 

[John S]

From what I recall of the chats between ref, TMO, and Slipper, the compounding issue was the leg lift by Lonergan. Might’ve looked worse on the field than it actually was.

Yeah, I thought the Argie clean out looked worse on TV as it was straight over the neck, but it was early and I may have only had one eye open

 

[Pfitzy]

1) Wallaby non-try first half - I can see why they ruled that, but ruck incidents like that happen. Was it consequential to the try? No. Was it foul play? Well if it really was, Slipper should have seen yellow or red.

2) Wallaby non-try second half - clearly Petaia wasn't released. While there is no offside line in-goal, he was never released in the field of play. Borderline but extremely unfortunate.

3) Argie try to prop - who hit the deck and was told "short", then did not release and dived over. Terrible.

 

[Braveheart81]

1) Wallaby non-try first half - I can see why they ruled that, but ruck incidents like that happen. Was it consequential to the try? No. Was it foul play? Well if it really way, Slipper should have seen yellow or red.

2) Wallaby non-try second half - clearly Petaia wasn't released. While there is no offside line in-goal, he was never released in the field of play. Borderline but extremely unfortunate.

3) Argie try to prop - who hit the deck and was told "short", then did not release and dived over. Terrible.

1. I don't think it is foul play. Matera is holding on to the player on the ground and due to the body he's getting rolled over, the cleanout made him flip over. It was slow and controlled and didn't happen due to the actions of Slipper or Lonergan. There was no danger.

2. I'm not sure about this one. Momentum carried Petaia over the line. Does the tackler need to release in that time frame? I don't think that is a reasonable expectation. Both players were carried across the goal line from momentum.

3. This should have definitely been a no try and penalty to the Wallabies.

 

[Pfitzy]

Does the tackler need to release in that time frame?

Define "immediately" in this context

 

[dru]

Define "immediately" in this context

At the point there is no natural momentum?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Tackle occurs the instant the ball carrier hits the ground with the tackler in contact. Immediately means release then, not another metre or more along the ground depending on the carrier's momentum

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Tackle occurs the instant the ball carrier hits the ground with the tackler in contact. Immediately means release then, not another metre or more along the ground depending on the carrier's momentum

That is not the way referees have interpreted this otherwise tries where players have momentum or slide into in-goal would be PKs for not releasing. IMO the player is tackled when the carrier's momentum stops. The grey area is when the tackler falls off or releases while there is still momentum. As a result, we see a few PKs here when the tackled player and/or referee has to make a split second decision.

 

[Braveheart81]

Wrong...

Taken from Law 14 - Rugby Law Book:

Requirements for a tackle:

1. For a tackle to occur, the ball-carrier is held and brought to ground by one or more opponents.
2. Being brought to ground means that the ball-carrier is lying, sitting or has at least one knee on the ground or on another player who is on the ground.
3. Being held means that a tackler must continue holding the ball-carrier until the ball-carrier is on the ground.

There is nuance to all the laws though. The laws also state that the tackled player must immediately make the ball available by releasing it, passing it or pushing it in any direction except forward or placing it in any direction.

None of the laws consider the momentum of a player sliding yet all of us know that to be a reasonable thing that is within the laws.

If we are clear that the tackled player can continue sliding across the line before they place the ball then I don't see how we can dictate that the tackler has to release the player within that fraction of a second as they are also sliding across the goal line.

 

[Bullrush]

Wrong...

Taken from Law 14 - Rugby Law Book:

Requirements for a tackle:

1. For a tackle to occur, the ball-carrier is held and brought to ground by one or more opponents.
2. Being brought to ground means that the ball-carrier is lying, sitting or has at least one knee on the ground or on another player who is on the ground.
3. Being held means that a tackler must continue holding the ball-carrier until the ball-carrier is on the ground.

One of my pet peeves is watching guys get tackled and get back up and run again without releasing the ball because they weren't 'held'.

If the tackler has to release immediately, the ball carrier needs to also release the ball at that same time.

 

[Dan54]

Got to say it good to start watching Harbour-Tasman NPC game and see Damon Murphy reffing it, seems he contacted NZR and volunteered his services, I suppose just like the players the refs like a different comp and keeping in eye at a higher level. Big ups to him.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

He will only be a better ref for doing so too

Maybe. In this case, the rationale is a referee who has been injured and needs some time in the middle rather than a development opportunity.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Got to say it good to start watching Harbour-Tasman NPC game and see Damon Murphy reffing it, seems he contacted NZR and volunteered his services, I suppose just like the players the refs like a different comp and keeping in eye at a higher level. Big ups to him.

He's listed as AR2 for AB v Pumas next week so maybe thought he needed a run?