Refereeing decisions

[Braveheart81]

Tackled without the ball? Reckon I've seen that penalised many times in games. Or is that just another misnomer imported from League?

If two players are competing for possession and both in a reasonable position to win the ball then there is no indiscretion if there is contact in the air.

If one player isn't in a realistic position to contest for the ball and there is a collision then they will be at fault for taking out the other player in the air.

Liquor Box was asking whether the high ball contest could be considered a player jumping into a tackle but it can't be because no one has possession at that point in time.

 

[Pfitzy]

Law Clarifications | World Rugby Laws

Clarifications in law for the game of rugby union, as requested by unions or individuals.

www.world.rugby

Clarification 3 2022​

Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee​

Clarification
3-2022
Union / HP Ref Manager
NZR
Law Reference
9
Date
28 February 2022
Request
NZR seeks clarity on 2 issues:

• Law 9.17 states “a player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground”.
• Law 9.11 states “players must not do anything that is dangerous to others including leading with elbow or forearm”.
• Law 9.7 states “ a player must not intentionally infringe any law of the game”

Q.1 When a player hurdles/jumps over a tackler who is attempting to make a low legal tackle, this stops the defender from being able to tackle the ball carrier (as the ball carrier is now in the air and not able to be tackled). This seems unfair and against law 9.7 “unfair play”.
In SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) round 1 Pita Gus hurdles Aaron Smith, re lands on his feet and then dives to score

(Video of)

NZ Rugby wants to know is this legal or illegal, unfair play or unfair and dangerous play?

Q.2 In 2021, Jonny May scored by leaping/diving over a covering tackler and scoring in the corner. His dive/leap and twist allowed him to score directly in one movement.

(Video of)

NZ Rugby wants to know if this is legal/illegal, unfair play or unfair and dangerous play.

Clarification of the designated members of the Rugby Committee

A.1 We agree – jumping to hurdle a potential tackler is dangerous play, as is the act of a ball carrier jumping into a tackle. Even if no contact is made, we believe this act is in clear contravention of law 9.11, and runs contrary to the game-wide focus on player welfare.
In this specific case the sanction should be a PK against the ball carrier.

A.2 A ball carrier may dive with the ball in order to score a try, and we all agree that should be allowed. From an equity perspective, if they do so, a defender may attempt to make a safe and legal tackle on that player. As we have said above, jumping to avoid a tackle should be regarded as dangerous play and should be sanctioned accordingly,even if no contact is made.

Player welfare should remain the priority deciding factor for match officials in these very rare situations. In such instances as this rare example, which involves great player skill and dexterity, match officials have to make a judgement call as to which actions have taken place. If there is any element of dangerous play, in line with the above ruling, then a try cannot be the reward.

In principle, in a try scoring situation, if the action is deemed to be a dive forward for a try, then it should be permitted. If a player is deemed to have left the ground to avoid a tackle; or to jump, or hurdle a potential tackler, then this is dangerous play and should be sanctioned accordingly.

 

[liquor box]

It will be interesting to see what data gets released from the GPS balls that are now being used, of particular interest is whether we can use the data to determine if a line out throw is straight, arguments over line out throws is rampant on matchday discussions and it will be interesting to see a definitive answer as to the straightness of a throw.

 

[PhilClinton]

It will be interesting to see what data gets released from the GPS balls that are now being used, of particular interest is whether we can use the data to determine if a line out throw is straight, arguments over line out throws is rampant on matchday discussions and it will be interesting to see a definitive answer as to the straightness of a throw.

Someone else mentioned this earlier in the season, and lineouts in general are such a mess in Super Rugby. Opposition teams closing the gap, jumpers going up early, dangerous contests in the air, blockers forming for mauls early, just to name a few.

I agree that not straight lineouts are a big problem, but they are one of many. The whole lineout needs to be policed better if they’re going to start pinging throws via GPS

 

[liquor box]

Someone else mentioned this earlier in the season, and lineouts in general are such a mess in Super Rugby. Opposition teams closing the gap, jumpers going up early, dangerous contests in the air, blockers forming for mauls early, just to name a few.

I agree that not straight lineouts are a big problem, but they are one of many. The whole lineout needs to be policed better if they’re going to start pinging throws via GPS

I dont think referee decisions will be made by GPS, but the fans on forums will use it to make an argument or complain that Nick berry favours the Reds because he did not blow a penalty when a throw by the Reds was 89 degrees but the Brumbies got pinged for an 88.99 degree throw.

The issue for me is there should be no penalty to a team that does not contest the ball.

I wonder if the technology could be used to determine if a ball was grounded?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I dont think referee decisions will be made by GPS, but the fans on forums will use it to make an argument or complain that Nick berry favours the Reds because he did not blow a penalty when a throw by the Reds was 89 degrees but the Brumbies got pinged for an 88.99 degree throw.

The issue for me is there should be no penalty to a team that does not contest the ball.

I wonder if the technology could be used to determine if a ball was grounded?

No contest was a trial law variation introduced to the NRC. Super rugby does not play this particular ELV so it should not be allowed. At present it just contributes to refereeing inconsistencies.

 

[Dan54]

Was interested listening to O'Keefe talking on Breakdown last night, saying how fast game was these days etc. He said like last year when they has the situation of home refs where he did ABs (Berry etc did Wallabies), he said game is played so fast when you make decisions you can't favour teams, because you don't really even think what team it is as you blow whistle , you just see infringement.

 

[Pfitzy]

Was interested listening to O'Keefe talking on Breakdown last night, saying how fast game was these days etc. He said like last year when they has the situation of home refs where he did ABs (Berry etc did Wallabies), he said game is played so fast when you make decisions you can't favour teams, because you don't really even think what team it is as you blow whistle , you just see infringement.

Law Book: 150 pages
Correct decision: impossible

 

[Pfitzy]

I wonder if the technology could be used to determine if a ball was grounded?

If it can detect a blade of grass, maybe.

I think that we risk making Perfect the enemy of Good, sometimes.

 

[Pfitzy]

No contest was a trial law variation introduced to the NRC. Super rugby does not play this particular ELV so it should not be allowed. At present it just contributes to refereeing inconsistencies.

As a ref I tend to let it go a bit if teams aren't contesting, as long as it isn't stupidly bad. If they are contesting, I'll be more strict.

But that is park footy.

 

[PhilClinton]

If it can detect a blade of grass, maybe.

I think that we risk making Perfect the enemy of Good, sometimes.

At best I would think they could put sensors in the goal posts and the corner posts, which could trigger if the ball has crossed from the field of play into the in goal area for a try. It is actually a query which gets asked a lot when looking at TMO replays, with players rolling over from the base of a ruck or back of a maul.

But knowing the actual grounding would be near impossible I think.

 

[Pfitzy]

But knowing the actual grounding would be near impossible I think.

And consider the camber of certain grounds versus others. Even between the goal and corner posts you're talking a bit over 30 metres, and on some grounds that's a drop of more than a few mm.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Nigel has some thoughts wrt 50/22 & goal line dropout ELV's.

Nigel Owens: The rule changes rugby needs right now

Opinion: Get rid of goal-line dropouts and be stricter with attackers at rucks

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Pfitzy]

A lot of what Nigel is saying is situational.

I agree with attackers pulling defenders off their feet at rucks - there are cleanouts, there are crocodile rolls, then there is just pulling a guy forward onto his head while he's trying to jackal. Should be penalty to defending team.

 

[Dctarget]

A lot of what Nigel is saying is situational.

I agree with attackers pulling defenders off their feet at rucks - there are cleanouts, there are crocodile rolls, then there is just pulling a guy forward onto his head while he's trying to jackal. Should be penalty to defending team.

I always thought you could pull a guy off his feet?

 

[Pfitzy]

I always thought you could pull a guy off his feet?

If you bind and are attemping to clear out, yes. Grabbing a player at ruck time without binding (to the shoulder) is officially not allowed. Neither is collapsing it intentionally.

Law 15.7. (Joining a ruck) A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player. The bind must precede or be simultaneous with contact with any other part of the body.

Law 15.16.b (During a ruck Players Must Not) Intentionally collapse a ruck or jump on top of it.

Laws of the Game | World Rugby Laws

Individual Laws of the game of rugby union.

www.world.rugby

 

[Pfitzy]

Similarly at Maul time, you cannot pull an opponent out of the maul.

Law 16.11. (During a maul Players must not)
a. Intentionally collapse a maul or jump on top of it.
b. Attempt to drag an opponent out of a maul.

Laws of the Game | World Rugby Laws

Individual Laws of the game of rugby union.

www.world.rugby

 

[Rob42]

Some good comments from Nige on the unusual ruling in the ENG-FRA game, where the French player went high to catch, the English player didn't leave the ground or really contest, and caused the French player to land heavily. Jaco Peyper seemed very keen to blame the retreating French players for blocking, and in the end they were penalised, not the English player.

I like that retreating players are penalised for blocking, but it did seem that most of the fault still remained with the English player.

 

[Bandar]

Some good comments from Nige on the unusual ruling in the ENG-FRA game, where the French player went high to catch, the English player didn't leave the ground or really contest, and caused the French player to land heavily. Jaco Peyper seemed very keen to blame the retreating French players for blocking, and in the end they were penalised, not the English player.

I like that retreating players are penalised for blocking, but it did seem that most of the fault still remained with the English player.

Nobody would have complained if the English player was red carded, how he found a penalty against France was unbelievable.

The inconsistency is so frustrating

 

[Lindommer]

It was Peyper, I'm not surprised. Jaco comes up with a coupla head-scratching decisions every game he whistles.