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Reds vs Waratahs - the war before the war

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emuarse

Chilla Wilson (44)
The fact that the reds had so many rookies in their team last year & still won the title must count very strongly towards against a team carrying quite a few crocs.
The Reds will definitely be 'more in your face' and the Waratahs will revert to the öle'aimless kicking game.
 
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What2040

Guest
The fact that the reds had so many rookies in their team last year & still won the title must count very strongly towards against a team carrying quite a few crocs.
The Reds will definitely be 'more in your face' and the Waratahs will revert to the öle'aimless kicking game.

agree that Reds will be "more confident in their own ability" particularly in forwards and Berrick will resort to the kick
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
My quick thoughts on this match up and overall for the teams

Tahs:-
Too many injured and recently underperforming players. They will struggle. I have got to say I am left very underwhelmed by the "leadership group" idea. I understand the lack of fit options but this is really situation of their (management) own making. The best forward Captain option was MOwen. It would be a great irony if he was picked as Captain for the Ponies. Some very large question marks exist of the fitness of quite a few major lynch pins for this team.

Reds:
How wil they adapt to life without QC (Quade Cooper). I feel that they will do very well in that regard and rate Harris very highly indeed. They also have able back-up in the position with Lucas. The areas I see possible issues for the Reds is at Hooker and a partner for Horwill. The Reds lack lineout dominance unless Simmons can really step up this year. Who is there after Simmons to act as foil for Horwill at 4? Depth is the issue here IMO. These may well be fighting words but I have never really rated S. Fainga'a. He has had some brilliant games and outperformed last year (in Super Rugby) IMO. The problem is again one of depth in this position. As for strengths Prop and back row along are very impressive in the depth and options. Some will say the Tahs have the best Prop roster in Oz but with that huge ? mark over Fatcat I am not so sure they look as good depth wise.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Who are these under performing players Gnostic? The only one I can think of would be TPN but really after a full pre-season he'll be better for it and back to his Super rugby best.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I would have to add Elsom, Horne and Palu to that list. Or is this more injury related than under performing? Doing my best not to rile anyone here.

As for Horwill partner I think Simmons will be better this year but AWH did well last year and didn't we buy another young gun? S. Fainga'a will also be better and has Hanson and Anae to keep him motivated.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
This game will suck! First game of the season is usually a rout for one team (unlikely as both sides are quality) or a dour penalty goal driven match.

And Gnostic in regards to Simmons, he was consitantly good last year and many underestimate him because how tight he plays. He is still only young aswell, I'm more then happy to have him partner Kev
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Who are these under performing players Gnostic? The only one I can think of would be TPN but really after a full pre-season he'll be better for it and back to his Super rugby best.


1. Elsom - new to the Tahs but due to injury hasn't played for two years apart from cameos here and there. Has not played anywhere near his best since he returned to Oz.
2. Douglas - 2nd year jitters maybe. His form last year was up and down, nowhere near what he showed in 2010.
3. TPN - injured yes but inconsistant as well probably because of factor 1.
4. Alcock - couldn't hold his position in the absence of Waugh and will need to step up.
8. Palu - did he play last year? Injured again and takes ages to come back to form if he survives initial contact.
9. Fitzpatrick - of all the potential stars we have seen come and go at the Tahs perhaps one of the most disappointing has been Fitzpatrick. Every year I have hoped for him to step up and really take his position by storm.
10. Halangahu - he has shown that he can do it with massive games against the Blues and others. He then disappears for the rest of the season.
11. Vickerman - I do not accept that he did anything of note in a Wallabies jersey last year and as he will again be coming back from injury I expect a slow start from him when he evetually makes it onto the field.
12. Mumm - the fact that he has been forgotten by most and indeed excluded from the "Leadership Group" speaks volumes of his form and place in the side.

With at least some question of form/performance over 12 players in the squad apart from the injury status of some of them should make some of those over efusive fans sit back and take stock and just maybe be a little more guarded in their comment.

IMO big question marks remain over the long term injured, Palu, TPN, Barnes, Elsom and Horne and if they are really fully fit or can get that way.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
This game will suck! First game of the season is usually a rout for one team (unlikely as both sides are quality) or a dour penalty goal driven match.

And Gnostic in regards to Simmons, he was consitantly good last year and many underestimate him because how tight he plays. He is still only young aswell, I'm more then happy to have him partner Kev


You have missed my point. The Reds lineout had a base level of effectiveness last year IMO. I am expecting their set peices to be targetted much more this year. Simmons is indeed the best choice to partner Horwill, BUT, I would hope to see him become more dominant in this aspect of play. AWH did indeed fill in ably last year but is a long step down from Simmons and that is my argument regarding second row depth.

Sully I have been waiting for S. Fainga'a to get better for almost as long as I have been waiting for Fitzpatrick to step up at the Tahs. I would not be surprised if Hanson took over the No1 Hooking spot this year if he can get his throwing right. Anae needs some game time to develop.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
I actually think that Hanson has the potiental to be a better hooker then Fainga'a. Just need him to step up.

Gnostic - Agree with you list of under performers in the Tah's except for Vickers. By the end of the RWC I actually thought he was showing old form. Hopefully he will continue to improve with consistant playing.

And to get into the spirit of the thread and anoy some of the New South Welshmen - Do you really think Mumm will do any better with his daddy in the coaches box?
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Not to be pedantic, but Greg is Dean Mumm's brother (if that is who you're referring to).
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Sorry. With his family in the coaching box?
It isn't new for him - has been coached by him at Uni. I don't think the presence or absence of Greg Mumm will make a difference - it's up to Dean to step up a notch. I think he's a good Super rugby player, while not necessarily being a stand out at the next level. Teams need good Super rugby players.
 

emuarse

Chilla Wilson (44)
I suspect the Tahs year is probably going to revolve around Rocky's year. If he comes out fresh and regaining some of his old (was it Munster) form, then he will lead the side from the front and they could be a real force; but his early season on the injury listr doesn't really augre well.
Big Kev, on the other hand, is ready to take over from where he left off last year, but with more experience as a captain under his belt. I think he will inspire the Reds to a win in spite of the bookies sentiments.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
I suspect the Tahs year is probably going to revolve around Rocky's year. If he comes out fresh and regaining some of his old (was it Munster) form, then he will lead the side from the front and they could be a real force; but his early season on the injury listr doesn't really augre well.
Big Kev, on the other hand, is ready to take over from where he left off last year, but with more experience as a captain under his belt. I think he will inspire the Reds to a win in spite of the bookies sentiments.

Leinester - wash thy mouth out with soap!

Other then that I agree with all you have said.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
Now how have we let this thread get away.

I notice that the injury list from the Tahs is almost as long as their playing roster again. :D
 
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Linus

Guest
At least the Tahs are getting the injuries out of the way early this year.
 
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