Reds v Rebels, Super Rugby Round 16, 1 June 2013

[USARugger]

I don't care about the off loads, and I think he could tackle defend at 10 as well as any number of 10s. But those charge-downs are test-losing.

So is having a 10 who is anonymous for 79/80 minutes. Not defending Cooper - trying to come to terms with the knots in my stomach about this upcoming series.

JOC (James O'Connor) definitely owes English and I think it was Luke Jones, a beer.

 

[FrankLind]

As someone said above when O'Connor's at flyhalf he looks like he's playing hot potato with the ball. There is no purpose or deception in his play, he is either going to take it to the line himself or pop pass it to a close runner.

When he plays in the wider channel he looks a completely different player, he carries in two hands at speed and the extra space allows him to work his magic.

The difference between Cooper this year and Cooper circa 2011 is that now he is able to make a mistake in the game and then mentally come back from it, and start playing well again. He's not the perfect flyhalf, but I'd still pick him over the other options.

JOC (James O'Connor) is not the answer for the Wallabies at 10. He does not have the vision and awareness to play there.
Quade has the right vision, but has other frailties. Tough spot for the Aussies because a great 10 makes a great side.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

JOC (James O'Connor) is not the answer for the Wallabies at 10. He does not have the vision and awareness to play there.
Quade has the right vision, but has other frailties. Tough spot for the Aussies because a great 10 makes a great side.

He's not a 10 and I spent 2012 trying to convince people on here of that fact.
He can play there because he's a gifted athlete.
One might have thought that having coached Mehrtens, Spencer and Carter (only 2 of whom were proper AB 10's) Deans would have some idea what is needed in a test match 10.

 

[redstragic]

Don't know about that, he was up in the line a fair bit but its funny how a 20 year old league convert is preferred at 10 to the wallabies flyhalf in waiting.

I rate Hegarty. I was comfortable with JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 because they did not look good enough to break our line. Hegarty though has been really good for the Rebs and i thought he had the best chance to open us up.

 

[USARugger]

He's not a 10 and I spent 2012 trying to convince people on here of that fact.
He can play there because he's a gifted athlete.
One might have thought that having coached Mehrtens, Spencer and Carter (only 2 of whom were proper AB 10's) Deans would have some idea what is needed in a test match 10.

He's already proven he doesn't know what is needed in a test lock or center, why expect other positions to be any different?

 

[ACT Crusader]

JOC (James O'Connor) is not the answer for the Wallabies at 10. He does not have the vision and awareness to play there.
Quade has the right vision, but has other frailties. Tough spot for the Aussies because a great 10 makes a great side.

Luke McAllister was not the answer at 10 for the All Blacks, but yet he played there vs the Lions after Carter was injured. Sure it was a dead rubber, but still there were massive question marks over his ability to run a backline and not just take the ball to the line as his natural game.

JOC (James O'Connor) I think will be okay. I'd be more concerned about Higgers being out. I don't think the other options are playing anywhere near him right now.

 

[USARugger]

Luke was a classic second-five..JOC (James O'Connor) is a wing..what are you getting at?

Did you watch the game last night?

 

[ACT Crusader]

I did and as I posted earlier, thought JOC (James O'Connor)'s running game was good.

JOC (James O'Connor)'s best position IMO is 'inside centre' also. He was pretty good on the wing as a fill in for injury, so Deans persisted.

I need not ask if you watched the game, because I actually read posts....

 

[Dave Beat]

As someone said above when O'Connor's at flyhalf he looks like he's playing hot potato with the ball. There is no purpose or deception in his play, he is either going to take it to the line himself or pop pass it to a close runner.

When he plays in the wider channel he looks a completely different player, he carries in two hands at speed and the extra space allows him to work his magic.

The difference between Cooper this year and Cooper circa 2011 is that now he is able to make a mistake in the game and then mentally come back from it, and start playing well again. He's not the perfect flyhalf, but I'd still pick him over the other options.

True, about the wider channel, imagine the space he could create inside and outside at 13, his ball in 2 hands, deception and speed would draw 2 defenders frequently,and that creates more space.

 

[USARugger]

O'Connor was really never that impressive at 12. Good at times, yes. But never near as good as he is and has always been when on the wing.

 

[Dumbledore]

He was 17 and 18 when he last had a shot at 12. He'd be completely fine there now. Anyway, he did exactly what Deans wants from his flyhalf. Played flat, took the ball to the line, played square, didn't shirk the contest and didn't make horrific game-changing mistakes. As long as another playmaker is picked at 12 we'll be fine.

 

[USARugger]

He was 17 and 18 when he was lighting the world on fire at wing! Not saying he's a bad 12 but he has already proven he is one of the finest finishers on Earth when wearing 14.

 

[Dumbledore]

No. He started for the Force at 12 when he was 17. Then played fullback when he was picked for the Wallabies.

 

[Ruggo]

Neutral Point Of View Right Here
Firstly great game to watch.
Wasn't impressed with JOC (James O'Connor)'s playmaking at all. Played hot potatoes with the ball to set his mates up with hospital passes a couple times so he wouldn't get cleaned up himself.

Funny how the current Wallaby coach has sighted those exact things to justify not selecting a certain 10 (with 37 times the experience of playing 10 at test level than the bloke he has gone with).

 

[USARugger]

No. He started for the Force at 12 when he was 17. Then played fullback when he was picked for the Wallabies.

You've got me on the age. Except 15 is far more similar to 14 than 12 is, and his test stats on the wing are infinitely more impressive than at 15.

 

[Scotty]

He was 17 and 18 when he last had a shot at 12. He'd be completely fine there now. Anyway, he did exactly what Deans wants from his flyhalf. Played flat, took the ball to the line, played square, didn't shirk the contest and didn't make horrific game-changing mistakes. As long as another playmaker is picked at 12 we'll be fine.

I agree, Lilo must be picked outside of him.

I suspect that Deans will pick Horne though. With Barnes struggling for match fitness we may well see Folau at 15, which basically leaves us with no creative players outside Genia.

 

[Sully]

I've just re-watched the game. Anyone who said Cooper was awful last night clearly didn't watch anything except the charge down and the miss kick. There where no risky offloads in traffic. there were no risky off loads in traffic. He took the line on. He didn't over involve himself. He wasn't a stand out but he clearly wasn't awful.

 

[Scotty]

I've just re-watched the game. Anyone who said Cooper was awful last night clearly didn't watch anything except the charge down and the miss kick. There where no risky offloads in traffic. there were no risky off loads in traffic. He took the line on. He didn't over involve himself. He wasn't a stand out but he clearly wasn't awful.

I liked your post, but the charge downs were enough to make his overall performance pretty poor. The rest of his game was better than JOCs though.

 

[Dumbledore]

I agree, Lilo must be picked outside of him.

I suspect that Deans will pick Horne though. With Barnes struggling for match fitness we may well see Folau at 15, which basically leaves us with no creative players outside Genia.

I'm not quite sure that's true. Deans was happy to play Giteau and Barnes at 12 for a long time. We slayed on attack but were equally carved up on defence. Then he freaked out about that in the WC year and started picking McCabe/Fainga'a. That was compounded by injuries last year.

Deans really isn't an idiot. I think we're going to see somewhat of a combination of the two styles. We won't see the incredible width we saw with Quade at 10 in 2010, but it isn't going to be the stifling nothing-ness of the last couple of years. Lilo is a strong enough defensive centre that his extra playmaking ability should see him over the line. I might be being overly optimistic, but I expect to see Lilo at 12 and Beale at 15. With those two in the fold I reckon we'll see lots of interchanging between first receiver between all three players.

 

[Sully]

I liked your post, but the charge downs were enough to make his overall performance pretty poor. The rest of his game was better than JOCs though.

Charge down! There were not two.