Reds v Bulls: Round 4 - Suncorp

[Scrubber2050]

The move to get rid of every player who has creative ability is almost complete.

"Creative ability" means shit. Plenty of ex players have that.

Gotta use it or lose it (your spot)

 

[Scrubber2050]

those selections don’t really surprise me

Certainly not "eyebrow raising"

 

[SouthernX]

"Creative ability" means shit. Plenty of ex players have that.

Gotta use it or lose it (your spot)

What is creative ability? I mean it's pretty cut and dry with Quade Cooper, that's what I call creative ability. He kicks, passes, kicks passes, throws behind the back ect ect... but I don't ever recall that being what Duncan is known for in his game.



My 1 game observation of Brad Thorns REDS (not counting the Rebels) was a team vs the brumbies who liked to keep ball in hand, be very direct with their running at defenders (not a lot of lateral shimmy shimmy) Jono Lance never really thru the cut out pass, Kerevi never really passed it full stop. it was a lot of cannon ball football.

If our identity can be smash mouth running keeping ball in hand in the opponents territory and then kicking for territory when we are in our own territory. I think that can really suit us because it wears down opponents and there is nothing left in the gas tank for the opponent own creative flair. (Think this game plan will be suitable attacking the Bulls)

Have you noticed the lack of football our wingers have seen this year (small sample size i know) CFS has looked deadly every time his touched it. Nabuli a bit M'eh and i can't recall seeing any Daugunu magic as of yet cause the Reds just aren't spreading it wide.

 

[TSR]

Creative ability means heaps. Super rugby defences are way too good to bash down.

Sure - it helps if every player can catch and pass, but not every player reads a game intrinsically or read a defender on the run. Having a couple of players who can mix up their passkng and kicking options so that defence has to cover mutiple options is vital to any functioning rugby team at any sort of level.

It seems to me that Thorn is relying on Lance & Toua to provide the creativity. Last weekend the Reds actually created a number of good opportunities, mainly off the back a Lance. They just couldn’t finish them off.

I’d prefer DP out there personally as his short passing and footwork troubles oppositions but i’ll be interested to see if Kerevi offloads more of continued to be just a battering ram.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^
I'm not saying creative ability isn't super important. It is.

But if not used then it means nothing.

To me, the most creative player I have actually seen was Quade, back in the day.


He lost it (for some reason) on a consistent basis

 

[TOCC]

let’s just call it distributor or playmaker instead of creativity...Because I don’t think there is any shortage of creativity with guys like Kerevi, CFS and Daugunu, but they aren’t ball distributors and that’s what they’ve lost in DP.

 

[Derpus]

let’s just call it distributor or playmaker instead of creativity.Because I don’t think there is any shortage of creativity with guys like Kerevi, CFS and Daugunu, but they aren’t ball distributors and that’s what they’ve lost in DP.

And more or less why Kerevi can never really be the Wallaby 12. Particularly with Foley at 10.

 

[TOCC]

Based on how they played last week, and even during the NRC. Thorn likes big bodied runners to get over the advantage line, and as long as they’re doing their job correctly and filling that role you don’t need a second playmaker. i think it could work, but being the reds I could also see it falling apart.

I think Daugunu is in the 15 because he runs good support lines, a significant number of his tries in the NRC came off that back of him running in support of CFS or DP. His acceleration allows him to be in the right spot.

 

[TOCC]

And more or less why Kerevi can never really be the Wallaby 12. Particularly with Foley at 10.

I don’t see how my post correlates with this

 

[Derpus]

I don’t see how my post correlates with this

Because he can't distribute.........

 

[TOCC]

Because he can't distribute...

Who.. Foley?

 

[Derpus]

Who.. Foley?

You said the Reds have lost a distributor by dropping DP and shifting Kerevi in. I agree. I also think that Foley is not a good enough distributor to compensate for a 12 who also can't. Thus, Kerevi, who you have implied can't distribute very well, shouldn't be Wallaby 12. Particularly with Foley at 10. I see the selection issue with the reds as being analogous to the wobs.

Edit: okay, not 'never' but for now at least.

 

[TOCC]

Kerevi is still only 24, to say he will never be the wallaby 12 because ‘he can’t distribute’ is a little premature. It took Ma’a Nonu years to add that skillset to his repertoire.

Besides, this is the Reds thread... not wallabies...

 

[Zero_Cool]

And more or less why Kerevi can never really be the Wallaby 12. Particularly with Foley at 10.

I disagree if we were to have a playmaking 10 then Kerevi can actually be a really viable 12. Cooper or Barrett are good examples of players who fit this kind of mold, even Beale could be enough. Or you could go with that New Zealand style with SBW at 12 and Crotty at 13, having Kerevi at 12 and Beale at 13, although I think at this point you are effectively swapping 12 and 13 around and not really addressing the actual issue.

Also keep in mind Kerevi is only 24, he's got a lot of growth as a player in him left!

On the Reds situation, I think it's pretty clear Lance isn't the best distributor, and by the time Paia'aua gets the ball the defence has already rushed up on him. We can look at how the Q Country dealt with this to see some contrast on the ways you can deal with this issue (that many of us will be familiar with), Stewart isn't really much faster than Lance as a distributor but the difference with how Stewart deals with this is he uses his proficiency by boot to punish any defence trying to rush up on him by spearing the in behind the defensive line, this forces the defencive line to rush up as if they do they'll be punished. This give Paia'aua the time to allow him to create space for those outside of him.
For those wanting to see a good example of this if I remember correctly the game against Perth showed some really good examples of Stewart doing this and punishing the rush defence.

 

[TOCC]

I think Lance has been doing a pretty good job at flyhallf, controlled and mature in his decision making... maybe Stewart does have better passing or kicking skills, but he doesn't have the same control that Lance has which is the key difference between the two at this point of time in the season.

 

[dru]

let’s just call it distributor or playmaker instead of creativity.Because I don’t think there is any shortage of creativity with guys like Kerevi, CFS and Daugunu, but they aren’t ball distributors and that’s what they’ve lost in DP.

It all gets a bit one dimensional though. That issue could be overcome by either a 10 with a decent cut out pass, or a good off load game at 12. I guess that is where you see Kerevi’s creativity?

We have become used to creativity being the same as excellence in distribution, and you are right there is more than that available.

Let’s see how they harness it.

 

[Zero_Cool]

It all gets a bit one dimensional though. That issue could be overcome by either a 10 with a decent cut out pass, or a good off load game at 12. I guess that is where you see Kerevi’s creativity?

We have become used to creativity being the same as excellence in distribution, and you are right there is more than that available.

Let’s see how they harness it.

I don't disagree with this analysis. I think the more 'agricultural' style will work better with Lance at 10, than Paia'aua. But I still think the disconnect in the attack is more on Lance than Paia'aua and swapping Paia'aua out might fix the problem but might not be an ideal solution.
But we'll likely see 20-30 min of Stewart and Paia'aua coming on against a tired defence so their extra speed might prove very useful.

 

[glass half full]

Looking forward to seeing what Daugunu brings, and hope Nabuli did a lot of work on his ball handling during the week. I can understand his selection if CFS goes in one. Still think a call to Shipperley is worth it if he’s still floating around.

The forwards were tremendous last week, hope to see more of the same.

 

[swingpass]

Shipperley still at Rebels. Well he was sitting in the players group with his #1’s on last night. And ive seen him training. So not sure of status.

 

[Zero_Cool]

GAME TIME BOYS!