Reds 2023

[Wilson]

Heenan is probably the wildcard in the Reds setup.

He's had the credentials for a number of years to make the jump into professional coaching, but interesting that he took the opportunity now.

I wouldn't be surprised if the QRU and Thorn are already in discussions to move him into a Rugby/Development Director Role in the next few years, with Heenan coming through to Head Coach.

That's not me saying Heenan is ready, no doubt he's been amazing at the club level. But I am keen to see his impact out of a very well defined setup.

I agree that they're looking to get Heenan the experience he needs for bigger and better things, but I doubt they'd be looking at Thorn for that sort of DoR role, or that Thorn would be particularly interested in it. For me he's still at a stage where he needs to be coaching, building experience and results and is nowhere near ready to move into a more admin focussed role like that. I could definitely see him looking for an international level assistant role next though, give him a chance to work with a more experienced coach and build on what he's leaned as a head coach.

For mine I think there's probably a collection of KPIs/milestones throughout the season they'll be looking for the team to meet, and that'll be the barometer they'll use if they decide to call time on Thorn early. With the world cup at the end of the year I don't think they need to be too quick to make a call - most of the big movement in coaching is as a result of performance there, so there's not necessarily much to gain by going early. It is a bit complicated by who is making the call/driving any potential change - Cordingley or Hanham.

 

[SouthernX]

Given a choice between Heenan & McKellar … I’ll take Mick.

I still think brad thorn is our guy but he needs to get the results this year to have a conversation about another contract extension.

 

[Qldtragic]

I agree that they're looking to get Heenan the experience he needs for bigger and better things, but I doubt they'd be looking at Thorn for that sort of DoR role, or that Thorn would be particularly interested in it. For me he's still at a stage where he needs to be coaching, building experience and results and is nowhere near ready to move into a more admin focussed role like that. I could definitely see him looking for an international level assistant role next though, give him a chance to work with a more experienced coach and build on what he's leaned as a head coach.

For mine I think there's probably a collection of KPIs/milestones throughout the season they'll be looking for the team to meet, and that'll be the barometer they'll use if they decide to call time on Thorn early. With the world cup at the end of the year I don't think they need to be too quick to make a call - most of the big movement in coaching is as a result of performance there, so there's not necessarily much to gain by going early. It is a bit complicated by who is making the call/driving any potential change - Cordingley or Hanham.

lets hope it isn't Cordingley

 

[dru]

so if the Reds click this year and make a strong run in the finals, you'd ditch Thorn?

Not exactly, but without doubt on the back of Thorn up to 2023 I'd be making sure there were strong options on the table. If I had no choice but to make a decision right now, against a known strong option and Thorn as he has proven himself - yes Thorn doesn't make the cut. If the options were not strong the math is different. Bottom line is I think Thorn has been given plenty of time and latitude to make his case. For me that case is lacking.

Clearly I have no influence over the decision making.

 

[Adam84]

I think it comes down to 2023, a good season and extensions are considered, a poor season and he is clearly done.

 

[PhilClinton]

I agree that they're looking to get Heenan the experience he needs for bigger and better things, but I doubt they'd be looking at Thorn for that sort of DoR role, or that Thorn would be particularly interested in it. For me he's still at a stage where he needs to be coaching, building experience and results and is nowhere near ready to move into a more admin focussed role like that. I could definitely see him looking for an international level assistant role next though, give him a chance to work with a more experienced coach and build on what he's leaned as a head coach.

It would be interesting to see if asked, what direction Thorn ideally sees himself going.

I actually think one of his greatest strengths whilst at the Reds has been talent identification within his rugby programs. I think the ongoing development of several players has been lacking, but generally, he hasn't blooded many duds. I think part of that is because he's likely played both league and rugby with 100x more players across various levels of the game than anyone would care to remember. He's seen the intangibles needed to progress into a viable professional player.

That started way back when he was coaching the NRC, a lot of those level players ended up being key contributors for the Reds over the last 5 years.

If Australia is serious about getting their pathways back on track and ensuring we have the right players at the right levels of the game, maybe there is head of talent identification and development role at rugby HQ for Thorn.

Or he might just rather keep coaching, which is likely.

 

[RugbyReg]

I like that a lot. He's quite settled in Brisbane. Is great mates with Carozza. Perhaps a QLD Academy role. Would be a massive step down pay-wise obviously

 

[wamberal]

I like that a lot. He's quite settled in Brisbane. Is great mates with Carozza. Perhaps a QLD Academy role. Would be a massive step down pay-wise obviously

Thorn is one of the few people that could talk turkey with Aussies, Keewees, rugger types, or leaguies.

 

[RugbyReg]

Thorn is one of the few people that could talk turkey with Aussies, Keewees, rugger types, or leaguies.

yeah agree - that's one of the big appeals to me.

 

[Wilson]

I like that a lot. He's quite settled in Brisbane. Is great mates with Carozza. Perhaps a QLD Academy role. Would be a massive step down pay-wise obviously

He has always had a great rapport with the younger guys, he could be an excellent option as the Aus under 20s coach going forward. Certainly couldn't do worse than Grey.

 

[liquor box]

so if the Reds click this year and make a strong run in the finals, you'd ditch Thorn?

It is always a tough decision, but if the Reds believe there is a better option available then you could expect an even better 2024 with a better coach.

Ultimately it comes down to is there a better option, if you came second every year but knew if you changed coaches that you would come first you would change straight away.

 

[Silverado]

He has always had a great rapport with the younger guys, he could be an excellent option as the Aus under 20s coach going forward. Certainly couldn't do worse than Grey.

Yeah. He was outstanding for the Reds u20s when they flogged everyone

 

[Sully]

Dave Rennie is available and lived up this way.

 

[wamberal]

Just received the membership offer. As usual, it is incomprehensible.

 

[Ged]

Personally I'd back Thorn for an extension. We were 7/8 (?) halfway thru the season and had terrible luck against the Kiwi sides, should have won a few of those games. I get the impression most of the senior players still really like him. I think it will be fascinating to see how the dynamic between RA, EJ (Eddie Jones) and him may change this year, and hope that he will not be so much "on the outer". I actually think he and EJ (Eddie Jones) could get on like a house on fire. And we're gonna have a massive 2023 anyway! Everyone's gonna be fit and our first choice 23 is gonna be on fire, smash the Brums and the Tahs and win over half of our NZ games. 12/14 in the season and make the GF!

 

[RugbyReg]

“Everyone’s fit”

Except for most of our front row.

 

[TSR]

When Thorn started out it was clear his strategy would take 3-4 yrs to really yield results. Half way through last year the Reds were near the top of the table having lost one game to the Brumbies. Yes - they then had a poor run home and it wasn’t just about the injuries - but they were significant.

If the Reds end up mid table or worse then I expect Thorn’s contract won’t be renewed, but if we end near the top I would think the Reds would be keen to resign him.

 

[rodha]

It is always a tough decision, but if the Reds believe there is a better option available then you could expect an even better 2024 with a better coach.

Ultimately it comes down to is there a better option, if you came second every year but knew if you changed coaches that you would come first you would change straight away.

Surely Thorn will be gone either way after 2023 given that key players like Tupou are rumoured to jump if he stays on.

 

[dru]

Surely Thorn will be gone either way after 2023 given that key players like Tupou are rumoured to jump if he stays on.

I'm fine if "Thorn will be gone" EXCEPT if that was because of rumour.

 

[rodha]

If the Reds end up mid table or worse then I expect Thorn’s contract won’t be renewed, but if we end near the top I would think the Reds would be keen to resign him.

And if that happens - I will duly accredit the improvement to Mick Heenan and Phil Blake.