Reds 2021

[Rebels3]

So if you had a job while finishing school and the first couple of years out, say at Macca's, you wouldn't have taken another job that pays better and you feel will give you a better opportunity? These guys are professional and have the option to go where they want.

While we can get upset at Picone he works for his client. They make the final call, hopefully in consultation with their family.

Especially if he’s been promised game time. I don’t think any franchises worth their salt would want a player in their squad that’s just happy to play club footy for a number of years, not that there is anything wrong with that but it’s a poor sign of a pro if they are equally content to do so. You play the game to play it at the highest possible level you can.

 

[dru]

Especially if he’s been promised game time. I don’t think any franchises worth their salt would want a player in their squad that’s just happy to play club footy for a number of years, not that there is anything wrong with that but it’s a poor sign of a pro if they are equally content to do so. You play the game to play it at the highest possible level you can.

This is misdirection. Reds have a 30 year old starting at 10, with at best serviceable back up options, one of whom is also a similar age, and the other who failed to make it at 10 after plenty of chance (I'm not dissing Stewart, just how I see it). This also on the back of the Reds selection strategy pre-Covid 2020 where a young 10 was consistently sitting on the bench and managed through game time. If ever there was an opportunity for a young player to crack through into the 23 it is for an up and coming 10 at the Reds. Right now.

The "look" is malice by Piccone and poor decision making by Carter.

 

[RugbyReg]

So if you had a job while finishing school and the first couple of years out, say at Macca's, you wouldn't have taken another job that pays better and you feel will give you a better opportunity? These guys are professional and have the option to go where they want.

While we can get upset at Picone he works for his client. They make the final call, hopefully in consultation with their family.

in a perfect world yes. Most people know Carter would have got Super Rugby game time next year. Many reckon he'd get a fair chunk of starting time. Picone's modus operendi is purely about driving cash flow for his organisation now. I don't think he provides career advise about how to build the career and the obvious flow on benefits from that. It's about the moment. That's a fairly short sited approach if you ask me.

So Gordon can get more money at the Rebels and perhaps more immediate time.

Much of his time at the Reds would be a team of confirmed signings something like:

1 Hoopert
2 BPA
3 Tupou
4 LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
5 Blyth
6 Wright
7 McReight
8 Wilson
9 McDermott
10 GORDON
11 Vunivalu
12 JOC (James O'Connor)
13 Paisami
14 Daugunu
15 Petaia

But he goes to the Rebels where the confirmed signing team is:

1 Matt Gibbon
2 TBC
3 TBC
4 Trevor Hosea
5 TBC
6 Rob Leota
7 Josh Kemmeny
8 Isi Naisirani
9 Frank Lomani
10 GORDON
11 TBC
12 Matt To'omua
13 Reece Hodge
14 Marika Koroibete
15 Dane Haylett-Petty.

Enjoy that.

 

[RugbyReg]

So if you had a job while finishing school and the first couple of years out, say at Macca's, you wouldn't have taken another job that pays better and you feel will give you a better opportunity? These guys are professional and have the option to go where they want.

While we can get upset at Picone he works for his client. They make the final call, hopefully in consultation with their family.

harsh comparing the Reds to Maccas and the Rebels to proper job.

It'd be like a Uni Graduate getting a job as an associate at a high profile law firm in Brisbane with plenty of opportunities but you're going to have to work your way through the system to get those opportunities. You've been doing the hard work for a few years and are on the verge of getting a more senior partnership.

But then getting an offer to move interstate to a smaller, niche law firm, that pays more (because standard of living etc) and now you have to live away from your family but the promotion is confirmed, but the talent around you is more questionable because the culture of that organisation has been publicly questioned since its very recent launch and they're very public battles with bankruptcy.

Absolutely - take the bigger paycheck but that shouldn't be the only consideration.

 

[SouthernX]

I thought I read in previous pages of this thread that the reds told Gordon to drop piccone as a manager.

Imagine giving that ultimatum to a player. ITS TIME (Bruce buffer voice) for piccone and the reds to smoke the peace pipe and make up.

 

[RugbyReg]

The story I heard was that Gordon had moved on from Picone, gone to Dallan Murphy.

Then Piccone went to Dave Wessels and negotiated a deal for a player he didn't manage.

Then Picone used that deal to entice Gordon back to him.

 

[Ignoto]

Goddamn that's a shitty thing to do. Doesn't RA need to sign off on all deals, so surely this type of dealing would cause them to have some concerns?

 

[Braveheart81]

It'd be like a Uni Graduate getting a job as an associate at a high profile law firm in Brisbane with plenty of opportunities but you're going to have to work your way through the system to get those opportunities. You've been doing the hard work for a few years and are on the verge of getting a more senior partnership.

There's a few different analogies going around here. Certainly this could be a bad career decision for Gordon and it does seem like the clients of Picone are taking advice that might not be the best for their long term interests.

I'd say the law firm analogy here is more like that if you had a paralegal job with the law firm during uni then you should be grateful for that and settle for a lower starting salary as a graduate compared to outside hires because you feel indebted to them for giving you the job previously.

At the end of the day, I think this boils down to not taking players for granted and if you want someone to sign with you, you can't expect much of a discount for it being their home state or that you have contracted them previously.

 

[Dctarget]

But he goes to the Rebels where the confirmed signing team is:

1 Matt Gibbon
2 TBC
3 TBC
4 Trevor Hosea
5 TBC
6 Rob Leota
7 Josh Kemmeny
8 Isi Naisirani
9 Frank Lomani
10 GORDON
11 TBC
12 Matt To'omua
13 Reece Hodge
14 Marika Koroibete
15 Dane Haylett-Petty.

Enjoy that.

Pretty cool he gets to play with a backline of 4/6 incumbent Wallabies

 

[Jets]

harsh comparing the Reds to Maccas and the Rebels to proper job.

It'd be like a Uni Graduate getting a job as an associate at a high profile law firm in Brisbane with plenty of opportunities but you're going to have to work your way through the system to get those opportunities. You've been doing the hard work for a few years and are on the verge of getting a more senior partnership.

But then getting an offer to move interstate to a smaller, niche law firm, that pays more (because standard of living etc) and now you have to live away from your family but the promotion is confirmed, but the talent around you is more questionable because the culture of that organisation has been publicly questioned since its very recent launch and they're very public battles with bankruptcy.

Absolutely - take the bigger paycheck but that shouldn't be the only consideration.

On the first point, that's not the comparison I made. Just a job with more money and a perceived better opportunity.

On the second point I agree with you that the pay cheque shouldn't be the only thing to consider. I'm not sure of Carter's living situation but I would think you would need a substantial increase in wage to make a move viable.

 

[Dctarget]

The story I heard was that Gordon had moved on from Picone, gone to Dallan Murphy.

Then Piccone went to Dave Wessels and negotiated a deal for a player he didn't manage.

Then Picone used that deal to entice Gordon back to him.

Bizarre way of dealing. Picone must be charismatic because from the facts he sounds like an absolute wanker and I have no idea why anyone would sign with him.

For Carter to not only turn his back to the Reds, move cities and come back to his ex-manager, you'd imagine the Rebels deal must be very good.

 

[sendit]

Pretty cool he gets to play with a backline of 4/6 incumbent Wallabies

Yea i was about to say, development wise it cant be that bad an option. Look at all that seasoned backline talent around him, there's not that level of support for him in-house at the reds. I wasnt initially a fan of the deal but if i were him, go Rebels a year or two, learn from those guys, get some quality game time then head home to reds

 

[Bobby Sands]

So if you had a job while finishing school and the first couple of years out, say at Macca's, you wouldn't have taken another job that pays better and you feel will give you a better opportunity? These guys are professional and have the option to go where they want.

While we can get upset at Picone he works for his client. They make the final call, hopefully in consultation with their family.

Smh

 

[Bobby Sands]

The story I heard was that Gordon had moved on from Picone, gone to Dallan Murphy.

Then Piccone went to Dave Wessels and negotiated a deal for a player he didn't manage.

Then Picone used that deal to entice Gordon back to him.

If this is the case, it speaks to clearly how backwater our game is in this country.

This is light years behind the AFL, you can’t be doing deals for players that aren’t under your management.

Dallan is a good man.

 

[Bobby Sands]

On a more positive note, how about Nongorr getting a run at prop first year out of school.

TSS is the best rugby school in the country imo, remarkable the teams they put out every year.

 

[SouthernX]

Yea i was about to say, development wise it cant be that bad an option. Look at all that seasoned backline talent around him, there's not that level of support for him in-house at the reds. I wasnt initially a fan of the deal but if i were him, go Rebels a year or two, learn from those guys, get some quality game time then head home to reds

There’s more talent in the reds backline then there is at the rebels

The position of incumbent wallaby is stupid considering Michael Cheika was the last guy to pick a team.

Let’s talk “form” Players.

 

[RugbyReg]

Pretty cool he gets to play with a backline of 4/6 incumbent Wallabies

Hate to break it to you but there are only three incumbent wallabies in that backline. One of them a bench player. Two incumbent Wallabies in the Reds team (one a bench player).

I do suspect that come 2021 those numbers will be quite different....

 

[Dctarget]

There’s more talent in the reds backline then there is at the rebels

The position of incumbent wallaby is stupid considering Michael Cheika was the last guy to pick a team.

Let’s talk “form” Players.

I'm well aware that this is a Reds thread and y'all are feeling pretty done dirty by this (potential) announcement. But if you think a young flyhalf couldn't learn a lot from DHP, Hodge, Koroibete and To'omua then you're dreaming. JOC (James O'Connor) is the only one that has similar experience to give. But yeah, that reds backline is stacked with talent.

 

[sendit]

There’s more talent in the reds backline then there is at the rebels

The position of incumbent wallaby is stupid considering Michael Cheika was the last guy to pick a team.

Let’s talk “form” Players.

Totally missed the point but ok

 

[Braveheart81]

There’s more talent in the reds backline then there is at the rebels

The position of incumbent wallaby is stupid considering Michael Cheika was the last guy to pick a team.

Let’s talk “form” Players.

To'omua and Koroibete are surely incredibly likely to still start for the Wallabies in 2020 and DHP will undoubtedly be in the squad and a strong chance to also start.

I'd guess Reece Hodge would make the squad again.

Every incumbent Wallaby still playing in Australia will make the test squad and most will still be in the 23. (Sio, Ala'alatoa, Hooper, Naisarani, Koroibete, Petaia, Hodge, Uelese, Slipper, Tupou, Salakaia-Loto, White, To'omua, O'Connor).

The other RWC squad members still in Australia are Fainga'a, Simmons, Dempsey, Kuridrani, and Haylett-Petty.

I would say out of all them, Dempsey, Hodge and Uelese would be the only players vaguely at risk of missing a 2020 squad.