Reds 2020

[dru]

Lucas will never be at 10 open mens level. He simply can not operate effectively in tight time and space. Apart from one good pass early in the first half the rest of his game was extraordinary in the extreme. He spent most of his time directlly behind the phase play pointing to others to do the work, rather than being the director and creator of attacking structure play. On nearly every occasion, Stewart or Paisami filled in at 10. Fortunately Thorn has been making noise about JOC (James O'Connor) only being out for a week. Once again lack of goal kicking capability crucified the team.

Slow down, try to bottle the frustration and see if you can watch it again looking for Lucas positives. You'll find them if you look.

I just re-watched the first half. Lucas is still being introduced to Super rugby and the strategies seem to me quite logical. He is generally defending on the wing. In attack he runs mostly a second line positionally sitting behind the pod with Stewart as the first receiver in the the first line. None of that is Lucas not being able to deal with Super, it is introduction.

Next, his feeding into the forwards is where the pigs are telling both halves (and Stewart) "we got this". In time you would imagine 9 and 10 responding "not this time i see an opportunity" but for now it looks solid.

As the game moves fluently after a bit of possession, that double line shifts to a single back line where Lucas is back at first receiver. MANY times he had no problem taking the contact and testing the defence. Other times he made some awesome long passes perfectly positioned - our first try came from such a situation.

Lucas is doing fine. What really impressed me, was how Stewart has settled into the role, JOC (James O'Connor)-like, of being the senior and taking a lot of the "grind" away from a new 10.

Have another look Serge.

 

[Forcefield]

As a more neutral observer, I bloody love watching the Reds play. I think they are young, learning quickly and will benefit from whoever astutely signed the bulk of the squad up for the next few years. I reckon there will be a strong end to the season and this will kick over to 2021. Whether it'll just be a good year or the making of a dynasty, I think, will depend on whether the U20 side continues to churn out talent (to fill the gaps that will eventually open).

Don't envy the die hard fans though. Some of those losses would be frustrating (so close!) For someone with a bigger stake in the game.

 

[Ignoto]

It is not a necessary 15 CV item to kick goals, his ability there is obvious and poor - so why is he selected to do it? The problem is not Jock's ability to kick goal, but the Reds goal kicking. The question here surely is about coaching of kicking skills.

Dru, I completely understand with what you're saying. However, its the second week in a row where I've been unimpressed by Jocks kicking (which includes at goal AND in play). Having a Foleyesque clearing kick is detrimental to the teams ability to get out of the danger zone and with the line out being completely average, teams have shown a willingness to pin us our own 22 and put pressure on our line out.

Perhaps he's better suited on the wing rather than fullback because right now, I would prefer Isaac or Bryce at 15. You definitely lose something in terms of your running game, but at the same time, you gain territory.

 

[molman]

@dru I agree. Lucas' left to right pass for that first try was great. Nice hands a number of times moving it along the line, like the pass that started the last try. Asked questions of the line a few times (nice little step off the left). Scrambled well in defence. Backed up well in support. There was nothing specific to his performance that negatively impacted on the team's lack of success in the Crusaders game.


You've got to be looking at the teams lineout (it's a real mess, you can see they don’t trust it), goalkicking and some of the maul work well before you even start blaming Lucas for any issues or shortcomings. Even the scrum creaked at times.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Touching on the line out, how did it get so bad? Is it simply because Thorn is the line out coach and was not a good line out forward? Or did we just take it for granted? I’ve never seen a worse professional line out.

 

[Cancelled Account]

We were at the game yesterday and it was pleasing to watch the Reds play a good brand of rugby. Being at the game you see more of what is going on in the team structure than you do on a telecast. The backline players who are organised and know their positions well are CFS, Stewart, Paisami and Speight. Scotty’s game has improved and with a bit more game time I think we’ll see a pretty good player. For me, Lucas hasn’t quite clicked yet and is lost at flyhalf. Give him a bit more time this year playing from the bench. Jock is developing nicely but don’t give him kicking duties. Fuck me.
Wilson is my man. Bloody legend in the making. Wright, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), ASY (Angus Scott-Young), McReight all solid talent, bringing huge confidence to a building team. JP, Tupou and Mafi giving more every week. I was proud to be a Red’s man yesterday. The chatter beside me In the box was great to hear. A Crusaders life member turned to us and said that our boys have more heart in a team which is exactly why Thorny should stay on for the next 3 years to reap the rewards. They all had great respect for Thorny.
Now in Wellington for a second afternoon of good rugger.

 

[molman]

Touching on the line out, how did it get so bad? Is it simply because Thorn is the line out coach and was not a good line out forward? Or did we just take it for granted? I’ve never seen a worse professional line out.

Really not sure. Strikes me as some real loss of confidence that is compounding the issues.

Being at the game you see more of what is going on in the team structure than you do on a telecast.

Some great at the field insight. Generally mirrors what I felt from seeing it on the TV. I've always rated Stewart, but I'm really loving his play this season. Just wish he had a better boot. I think Petaia is no shoe in next year if Paisami keeps going the way he has. Couldn't agree more about Wilson. If we can avoid injuries we should have some real talent come next RWC.

Enjoy the ruggers in Welly!

 

[Penguin]

Touching on the line out, how did it get so bad? Is it simply because Thorn is the line out coach and was not a good line out forward? Or did we just take it for granted? I’ve never seen a worse professional line out.

The wallaby lineout let us down a few times during the WC. I think it was going well until BPA got injured and Hockings became uninjured. Coincidence?

 

[dru]

Dru, I completely understand with what you're saying. However, its the second week in a row where I've been unimpressed by Jocks kicking (which includes at goal AND in play). Having a Foleyesque clearing kick is detrimental to the teams ability to get out of the danger zone and with the line out being completely average, teams have shown a willingness to pin us our own 22 and put pressure on our line out.

Perhaps he's better suited on the wing rather than fullback because right now, I would prefer Isaac or Bryce at 15. You definitely lose something in terms of your running game, but at the same time, you gain territory.

Thought we were talking Lucas, on Jock then.. Lucas took the exit kicks, mostly workmanlike. Stewart took the kicks for the line, mostly workmanlike. Jock took the majority of long territory kicks, some were just fabulous, others workmanlike. And no better when Hegarty got involved.

The Reds started the season with kicks in play being unacceptably below par. It is certainly on a up trend even if not even close to competition leading. I’d call it workmanlike. We want better but can live with it.

Incedently there was no box kicking I can recall (places pressure on the territory kicking but protects a novice 9).

Our kicks at goal are the nexus of the matter, kicking in play can improve but we can manage for now.

 

[Penguin]

We were at the game yesterday and it was pleasing to watch the Reds play a good brand of rugby. The chatter beside me In the box was great to hear. A Crusaders life member turned to us and said that our boys have more heart in a team which is exactly why Thorny should stay on for the next 3 years to reap the rewards. They all had great respect for Thorny.
r.

I've had other Cantab friends and acquaintance express similar platitudes. I think we really need to appreciate what we've been lucky enough to bring together and be a bit more patient now for some real longtime gains. If any people know rugby well it's Cantabrians!

 

[Bobby Sands]

We were at the game yesterday and it was pleasing to watch the Reds play a good brand of rugby. Being at the game you see more of what is going on in the team structure than you do on a telecast. The backline players who are organised and know their positions well are CFS, Stewart, Paisami and Speight. Scotty’s game has improved and with a bit more game time I think we’ll see a pretty good player. For me, Lucas hasn’t quite clicked yet and is lost at flyhalf. Give him a bit more time this year playing from the bench. Jock is developing nicely but don’t give him kicking duties. Fuck me.
Wilson is my man. Bloody legend in the making. Wright, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), ASY (Angus Scott-Young), McReight all solid talent, bringing huge confidence to a building team. JP, Tupou and Mafi giving more every week. I was proud to be a Red’s man yesterday. The chatter beside me In the box was great to hear. A Crusaders life member turned to us and said that our boys have more heart in a team which is exactly why Thorny should stay on for the next 3 years to reap the rewards. They all had great respect for Thorny.
Now in Wellington for a second afternoon of good rugger.

Great post, great sentiments, great man!

 

[Bobby Sands]

I've had other Cantab friends and acquaintance express similar platitudes. I think we really need to appreciate what we've been lucky enough to bring together and be a bit more patient now for some real longtime gains. If any people know rugby well it's Cantabrians!

Couldn't agree more. It is so clear what we are building. We just need one of these games to go our way (knock off a big scalp) to be the tipping point moment of the next stage of growth.

People saying, "you need to win x games to be successful" are thankfully not the ones who makes decisions in smart organisations.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Looked like Paisami might have picked up a minor injury. If he's out I assume CFS will move in one and either Daugunu or Hegarty (with Campbell shifting to wing) will come in. Hopefully either of them will be given the tee.

When he's back that'll probably mean CFS or speight drops to the bench, not sure which at the moment though, CFS has been more reliable but speight has offered more upside in attack.

Well good news is cfs showing really good form and good cover for 13 - cfs been one of reds best this season I feel

 

[Rugbynutter39]

As a more neutral observer, I bloody love watching the Reds play. I think they are young, learning quickly and will benefit from whoever astutely signed the bulk of the squad up for the next few years. I reckon there will be a strong end to the season and this will kick over to 2021. Whether it'll just be a good year or the making of a dynasty, I think, will depend on whether the U20 side continues to churn out talent (to fill the gaps that will eventually open).

Don't envy the die hard fans though. Some of those losses would be frustrating (so close!) For someone with a bigger stake in the game.

Yeh the reds are a side you want to check in on to watch as feel likely to get moments of brilliant rugby but not usually the 80 minute performance or more that you feel confident they will find new ways to lose a game. Lot of promise but I imagine reds fans sick of talking about a lot of promise and just want to see results.

 

[molman]

I imagine reds fans sick of talking about a lot of promise and just want to see results.

Thorn said as much. They don't want more gutsy/noble etc.. losses. Need to start winning.

 

[Brumbieman]

I'm pretty keen to see how the lads go for the next 6 weeks - that's when we know.

Playing the Brumbies, Lions, Jaguares and Crusaders away in the first month of the comp is a brutal way to get started. Being in a position to win and not quite closing it out, in ALL games, is a shitload better than not ever being in it.

Their draw for the rest of the season is much more attractive and not a single game there i'd bet against this Reds team, side from obviously the Brumbies in Brisbane but even that is going to be a belter i reckon.

My guess from here is they power on through to the end of the season, finish 2nd in conference, possibly make finals but scrub out early.

Next year they make the final though, and make the finals for the next 6 years.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't get the Pocock comparisons. He clearly plays a different style of game.

I thin McReight, Wright, Wilson can work but would need a bulky second row as they are all a little light.

Well, Wilson certainly plays big Sully.

 

[Sully]

Well, Wilson certainly plays big Sully.

Yeah he fooled me. Apparently the same height and weight as Naisarani but to me he looks lighter. Guess he is not as heavy up top.

 

[Adam84]

Paisami our for a month with a knee injury

 

[Brumby Runner]

That's going to hurt the Reds, unfortunately.