Reds 2020

[wamberal]

I hate to say it, because I would hate to lose any players, but Eastwood usually have pretty good frontrowers. Jed Gillespie for one.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Hasn’t he retired?

 

[Cancelled Account]

Just looked him up and he’s now a Player Consultant with Sam Ayoub who is predominately working with league players.

 

[Ignoto]

With the prospect of a likely loss against the Crusaders next week, how long before the blowtorch is applied to Brad Thorn's reign? I'd suspect he's on shaky ground.

The Administration has said a number of times that they see Brad as a long term coach and have backed this up through a two year extension last year.

So, with that in mind, who and what would you have done differently with the 'young guns' that Brad has at his disposal? Remember, we've been down to a 3rd string front row all season long due to injuries. If anything, I would imagine the Feao's (Dave and Fotuakia) will need to start justifying their pay check. The latter has played less than a handful of games in two seasons.

I think last night showed that having both Campbell and Lucas in the 23 and not Hegarty causes extra pressure on everyone else. That game demonstrated we needed experience in the final 30 minutes which I think Hegarty would have brought to the table. It probably would have meant we were within 7 points as well as Jock missed some pretty ordinary shots at goal.

 

[Cancelled Account]

The Administration has said a number of times that they see Brad as a long term coach and have backed this up through a two year extension last year.

So, with that in mind, who and what would you have done differently with the 'young guns' that Brad has at his disposal? Remember, we've been down to a 3rd string front row all season long due to injuries. If anything, I would imagine the Feao's (Dave and Fotuakia) will need to start justifying their pay check. The latter has played less than a handful of games in two seasons.

I think last night showed that having both Campbell and Lucas in the 23 and not Hegarty causes extra pressure on everyone else. That game demonstrated we needed experience in the final 30 minutes which I think Hegarty would have brought to the table. It probably would have meant we were within 7 points as well as Jock missed some pretty ordinary shots at goal.

Hegarty needs to be starting fullback. Campbell and Lucas to be utilised and drip fed into Super Rugby.

 

[RugbyReg]

Well if JOC (James O'Connor) is unfit surely Bryce comes straight into 10?

 

[molman]

The Administration has said a number of times that they see Brad as a long term coach and have backed this up through a two year extension last year.

So, with that in mind, who and what would you have done differently with the 'young guns' that Brad has at his disposal?

I think the issue is that it feels like Brad is learning on the job. Another couple of years as assistant coach under a more experienced coach I think would have done wonders for him and potentially the team. His portfolio of experience is so light and I suspect he doesn't know what he doesn't know. It's been pretty obvious that he's been out of his depth for a while. There has been a lot of comments from those closer to it and getting the right people around him to shore things up became a priority pretty early on. My concern is I still don't see the strategic smarts out there on the field so I'm unsure if this is something he brings as a coach.

Remember, we've been down to a 3rd string front row all season long due to injuries. If anything, I would imagine the Feao's (Dave and Fotuakia) will need to start justifying their pay check. The latter has played less than a handful of games in two seasons.

I could be cheeky and say Slipper and Ruan.

I think last night showed that having both Campbell and Lucas in the 23 and not Hegarty causes extra pressure on everyone else. That game demonstrated we needed experience in the final 30 minutes which I think Hegarty would have brought to the table. It probably would have meant we were within 7 points as well as Jock missed some pretty ordinary shots at goal.

I tend to agree. I really rate Hegarty as a player and individual. I think it's fair to say he doesn't have the flair perhaps of some others and I do think Campbell is a great preospect but here and now he (Hegarty) just seems to have a much more mature game. Sometimes you just want someone to do the simple stuff right. Attacking rugby is all well and good if you've got your LO, goalkicking, field position and all the other basics sorted. The was probably the thing I found most disappointing last night.

Was it the players, is it the coaching I'm not sure. I want the Reds to succeed because I honestly think they have the talent to be so much better than this. Anyway there is still a lot of games to be played. Here's hoping they are able to bring it all together.

 

[Ignoto]

I could be cheeky and say Slipper and Ruan.

I'm afraid I can't comment on Ruan as I am completely unsure why he was let go. Some people have said there were issues, but I have no clue whether they're true. Unfortunately with James, it was one too many mistakes and he had to go. I feel absolutely gutted about the nature of it all ie around losing his mum, but there's only so much you can do.

I think losing both Feao's AND Hoopert has cost us more than those two this season.

Was it the players, is it the coaching I'm not sure. I want the Reds to succeed because I honestly think they have the talent to be so much better than this. Anyway there is still a lot of games to be played. Here's hoping they are able to bring it all together.

Based on last night, I don't see it being a coaching issue. The lineout was horrendous where players actually missed lifts, players not executing kicks and players not executing alternative game plans with rush defences.

The coaching team individually has achieved a lot in other organisations (outside of Thorn). So at this stage, I'm willing to give them some slack as right now. I think the players need to start being held accountable as from the outside, it seems like the QRU are giving them the tools they need to excel.

 

[dru]

There is no way I would be dropping Campbell short of whatever rotation plans are in place. He will improve for sure but he is definite Super level right now. And we need to stick with the Lucas development plan. If he needs to be dropped we need to bring someone else into the plan. Either way it doesn't make room for Heggarty - without other changes anyway. Possibly consider Stewart to bench and JOC (James O'Connor) to 12.

I'd stick with Campbell.

 

[dru]

I'm afraid I can't comment on Ruan as I am completely unsure why he was let go. Some people have said there were issues, but I have no clue whether they're true. Unfortunately with James, it was one too many mistakes and he had to go. I feel absolutely gutted about the nature of it all ie around losing his mum, but there's only so much you can do.

I think losing both Feao's AND Hoopert has cost us more than those two this season.



Based on last night, I don't see it being a coaching issue. The lineout was horrendous where players actually missed lifts, players not executing kicks and players not executing alternative game plans with rush defences.

The coaching team individually has achieved a lot in other organisations (outside of Thorn). So at this stage, I'm willing to give them some slack as right now. I think the players need to start being held accountable as from the outside, it seems like the QRU are giving them the tools they need to excel.

The messiness and having little structure is a coaching thing for me.

 

[molman]

I'm afraid I can't comment on Ruan as I am completely unsure why he was let go. Some people have said there were issues, but I have no clue whether they're true. Unfortunately with James, it was one too many mistakes and he had to go. I feel absolutely gutted about the nature of it all ie around losing his mum, but there's only so much you can do.

I think losing both Feao's AND Hoopert has cost us more than those two this season.

You're probably right. Still they would have been handy and yes there were things that obviously went on with the players let go.

Based on last night, I don't see it being a coaching issue. The lineout was horrendous where players actually missed lifts, players not executing kicks and players not executing alternative game plans with rush defences.

The coaching team individually has achieved a lot in other organisations (outside of Thorn). So at this stage, I'm willing to give them some slack as right now. I think the players need to start being held accountable as from the outside, it seems like the QRU are giving them the tools they need to excel.

Hard to know without being right in the setup. It's not like the Shark's picture changed much from their previous games. Their defensive pattern looked a little tighter perhaps, I felt like there looked to be more space on the edges than I remember in the Rebels game (I'd have to go back an watch the footage). Either way the players shouldn't have been having to execute alternative plans because they got what we expected... and the lineout, was that players who hadn't done their homework or was that coaches who hadn't allocated enough time to ensure that it was humming. You don't get shambles like that from well coached teams.


Anyway I know the Crusaders will do their homework and will have a laundry list of areas they will be trying to exploit next week. Reds need to sort some fundamentals out otherwise it's going to be a tough outing next week and this season is going to slip away from them.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Reds second half performances are worrying, and the 'young guns' are starting to feel the heat big time. With the prospect of a likely loss against the Crusaders next week, how long before the blowtorch is applied to Brad Thorn's reign? I'd suspect he's on shaky ground.

I'd say he is on strong grounds at least until the Reds play a few more local derbies. The matchup with the Tahs and Rebels will be telling. So far, a good showing against the Brumbies and every other game against overseas teams.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I'm not entirely sure they'll bring Hegarty straght into the 10 spot, but it's probably an 80 odd percent decision at this time. In order of crazyness (lest to most) some of the alterantives are:

• They Might run with Lucas again, he has hardly looked out of his depth at 10, just O'Connor was bettre.
• Stewart has shown more accument than many expected and COULD be worth a look.
• Carter Gordon could get a look (again least to most crazy).

Stewart moving in from 12 could also allow us to shuffle our backline with CFS coming in to the centers, and Filipo taking the 14 spot allowing Hegarty to come in for pretty much anyone to close out the game.

But yeah, Hegarty almost has to find himself in the 23, most likely the XV.

 

[dru]

I'm not entirely sure they'll bring Hegarty straght into the 10 spot, but it's probably an 80 odd percent decision at this time. In order of crazyness (lest to most) some of the alterantives are:

• They Might run with Lucas again, he has hardly looked out of his depth at 10, just O'Connor was bettre.
• Stewart has shown more accument than many expected and COULD be worth a look.
• Carter Gordon could get a look (again least to most crazy).

Stewart moving in from 12 could also allow us to shuffle our backline with CFS coming in to the centers, and Filipo taking the 14 spot allowing Hegarty to come in for pretty much anyone to close out the game.

But yeah, Hegarty almost has to find himself in the 23, most likely the XV.

Interesting speculation! I don't think we will see it though, barring possibly Hegarty to 10. Hope we stick with JOC (James O'Connor)/Lucas however.

 

[molman]

It really depends on the game plan. I don't mind the JOC (James O'Connor)/Stewart axis and would preserver with it. The constant swapping there is becoming an issue, so with JOC (James O'Connor) out if Lucas is your next 10 I think you have to back him otherwise draw a line in the sand on the whole Lucas playing 10 experiment.

I think I'd be tempted to play Hegarty at 15 but the dilemma is Campbell. I feel like the Reds have enough running threats that I think you need to weight up the balance of the team and what compromises you are willing to take.

I just get the impression that for this team there has been a little too much chopping and changing.

 

[The Grey Man]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Craig

 

[RedsHappy]

I'd say he is on strong grounds at least until the Reds play a few more local derbies. The matchup with the Tahs and Rebels will be telling. So far, a good showing against the Brumbies and every other game against overseas teams.

To be credible as a Finals team the 2020 Reds have to beat teams ranked above them. The Aust Conf in 2020 bar the Brumbies (our only well-coached team) is seriously weak and the test of any sound Aust team is in beating higher ranked teams outside the local Conference.

 

[RedsHappy]

I think the issue is that it feels like Brad is learning on the job. Another couple of years as assistant coach under a more experienced coach I think would have done wonders for him and potentially the team. His portfolio of experience is so light and I suspect he doesn't know what he doesn't know. It's been pretty obvious that he's been out of his depth for a while.

Correct. The past 15 or so years record for the QRU at pro level is one of appalling mismanagement in virtually every important aspect.

Its processes for choosing HCs and the choices made - bar Link, now well proven by look-back as the outlier, the fortuitous exception - have been woeful, the record unambiguously shows that.

After the horrendous dark ages of Graham, Stiles, McGahan etc Blind Freddy could see that the crucial, the only sensible, QRU HC choosing process would be to go overseas and aim to pay what it took to get a first class, proven pro coach with the maturity and judgement required to totally rebuild both playing and assistant coaching teams.

Desolation would be likely consequence if this risk of recruitment and standards aspiration was not taken.

So, what did the QRU do? It took a totally green, inexperienced coach from the local-only junior coaching ranks with zero experience of high level pro rugby and zero track record in it and appointed him as a 'developing' Reds HC.

The outcomes we see in 2018, 2019, 2020 now were all highly predictable; in many ways I feel genuinely sorry for Thorn. As you say @molman he should have served at least 2-3 years as AC under a quality, experienced pro HC and then have the assessment made as to whether he was ready for a full promotion.

 

[dru]

The outcomes we see in 2018, 2019, 2020 now were all highly predictable completely predicted; in many ways I feel genuinely sorry for Thorn. As you say @molman he should have served at least 2-3 years as AC under a quality, experienced pro HC and then have the assessment made as to whether he was ready for a full promotion.

+1; though I would make one change as above.

We are here now though having invested two years in the guy, he is not the same proposition as he was in 2018. I completely understand the concern with hanging on bny the fingertips through what you call the dark ages.

I just think this is not worth playing out. As i have said before, I would call this the first year of the usual 3 year set. I don't have a problem though if the QRU were investigating other opportunities and look things through more seriously at season end.

We fans bounce around though. Over doing it in both directions.

To summarise - the initial appointment of Thorn was an utter debacle with completely predicted outcomes. The most rational direction now however, may not necessarily be to throw him out.

 

[Ignoto]

Curious, what ideal HC got passed up for when Thorn was appointed? Through the failure of having a proper succession plan (i.e. Graham), the Reds have had to pay out Connolly, Graham and Stiles's contracts (unless there was some provision in their contracts).

Combine that with little/no money at all. It's no surprise that Thorn was appointed too early in his coaching carer as for what money the Reds could afford, the pickings were quite slim. However, similar to the Wallabies, the supporting staff at Reds HQ is close to the best nationally.

Now, I have always agreed that Thorn was prompted too early (you can go back many threads ago if you want). The same went for Stiles. To me, it all stems back from whoever decided Graham should have been the HC. That to me was the most egregious mistake the Reds have made in the last decade.