Reds 2019

[Bobby Sands]

A few good QLD produced coaches at the Brumbies (McKeller), Force (Samson) and Aust U20's (Gilmore).

I'm a big Gllmore fan, he was the main reason for the success of the Qld 20's teams that Thorn gets all the credit for. A lot of those guys were in his ACGS teams too. He's not Super rugby level ready yet, but I'm hopeful of some success at the JRWC in the next few years.

I was coached in one of the first teams he ever coached, the ACGS 13 A's . He's an unbelievably good bloke, and obviously very talented coach. One of the most connected men in Australian rugby I would have thought.

"I believe thats Mr. Gilmores!!"

 

[Bobby Sands]

But again, why don't QLD produce their own quality coaches ?

We do.

Your previous coach was from QLD.

The Brumbies coach is from QLD.

Our coach is from QLD.

The Forces's coach is from QLD.

 

[Rebelsfan]

We do.

Your previous coach was from QLD.

The Brumbies coach is from QLD.

Our coach is from QLD.

The Forces's coach is from QLD.

our previous coach was not a quality coach and as i understand it, no longer coaches in QLD at the professional level.

 

[Bobby Sands]

our previous coach was not a quality coach and as i understand it, no longer coaches in QLD at the professional level.

Coached Munster, Easts (I think) & Churchie to flags. He did alright.

 

[liquor box]

I think it's worse than "poaching". The Reds SHOULD be employer of choice and desired destination for 99% of kids coming out of QLD schools. But it appears we are not - and there is good reason for that. I could imagine quite a few parents of young players suggesting other teams (indeed other codes!) may offer a more stable and professional environment.

If when my son is older he was good enough to play Super Rugby I would recommend moving interstate, despite being born in QLD and me being a Reds fan I think his development would be better going interstate.

Getting away from friends and reputations as a player and having to earn it on your own would be great for your career. Moving to Melbourne where you are not a superstar in the limelight due to AFL would also keep the head in check too.

Depending on position he played then I would possibly suggest going overseas for a while, I think forwards would learn more in Europe than in QLD.

There is nothing wrong with kids leaving QLD, they can always comeback as proven players when they are 23 years old and give 7-10 good seasons.

 

[Gnostic]

If when my son is older he was good enough to play Super Rugby I would recommend moving interstate, despite being born in QLD and me being a Reds fan I think his development would be better going interstate.

Getting away from friends and reputations as a player and having to earn it on your own would be great for your career. Moving to Melbourne where you are not a superstar in the limelight due to AFL would also keep the head in check too.

Depending on position he played then I would possibly suggest going overseas for a while, I think forwards would learn more in Europe than in QLD.

There is nothing wrong with kids leaving QLD, they can always comeback as proven players when they are 23 years old and give 7-10 good seasons.

Seriously I would recommend he get his highlights tape to a Euro club and move over there. Super rugby (and Pro Rugby) is dying a slow and agonizing death in Australia. I'd suggest that any young'un interested in a pro rugby career should see AUstralian Rugby for what it is now, little more than a stepping stone for those good enough to move early overseas, unless of course you are part of the chosen few who can extra obscene contracts for excessive terms.

 

[dru]

Seriously I would recommend he get his highlights tape to a Euro club and move over there. Super rugby (and Pro Rugby) is dying a slow and agonizing death in Australia. I'd suggest that any young'un interested in a pro rugby career should see AUstralian Rugby for what it is now, little more than a stepping stone for those good enough to move early overseas, unless of course you are part of the chosen few who can extra obscene contracts for excessive terms.

This is the sadest statement I have seen about RA. Period.

I'd love to argue. Can't.

 

[Gnostic]

This is the sadest statement I have seen about RA. Period.

I'd love to argue. Can't.

Yep it is. Look at Liam Gill as an example of a Qld son doing very well OS and what I see as a totally biased fixed system of selection that saw Hooper and Pocock virtually guaranteed the 7 spot between them no matter the form as the amount of money spent on their contracts even before Hooper's insane mega deal, meant they would be selected. Then RA ensured the continuance of that system with Pocock's sabbatical. What incentive was there for a very good player like Gill to remain and push for selection? Better to see RA for what it is and go overseas and truly develop their rugby, widen the metaphorical horizons and earn some coin at the same time. Just takes an acceptance that there will never be a Wallabies selection.

Then again think how those locks would be feeling having worked in our broken systems with poor coaching teams to now be faced with Wil Skelton (a personal favorite of mine, but I have never supported the Giteau law or the ridiculous sophistry that saw Elsom and Vickerman selected to play for the Wallabies despite not playing in Australia that year) to now look like walking back into a squad selection if not a starting spot. How can a player see such things and not get disheartened, there is no integrity in the systems and the contracting system.

 

[dru]

Yep it is. Look at Liam Gill as an example of a Qld son doing very well OS and what I see as a totally biased fixed system of selection that saw Hooper and Pocock virtually guaranteed the 7 spot between them no matter the form as the amount of money spent on their contracts even before Hooper's insane mega deal, meant they would be selected. Then RA ensured the continuance of that system with Pocock's sabbatical. What incentive was there for a very good player like Gill to remain and push for selection? Better to see RA for what it is and go overseas and truly develop their rugby, widen the metaphorical horizons and earn some coin at the same time. Just takes an acceptance that there will never be a Wallabies selection.

Then again think how those locks would be feeling having worked in our broken systems with poor coaching teams to now be faced with Wil Skelton (a personal favorite of mine, but I have never supported the Giteau law or the ridiculous sophistry that saw Elsom and Vickerman selected to play for the Wallabies despite not playing in Australia that year) to now look like walking back into a squad selection if not a starting spot. How can a player see such things and not get disheartened, there is no integrity in the systems and the contracting system.

I hated with current hate how LFG was treated. Better than either Hooper or Pocock in a classic 7 expectation. IMO.

But I don't berate the creativity in the Pocock year out.
More importantly, RA/ARU or the west's call of ERU, have failed to deal with a national team based on here in Australia.

 

[Gnostic]

I hated with current hate how LFG was treated. Better than either Hooper or Pocock in a classic 7 expectation. IMO.

But I don't berate the creativity in the Pocock year out.
More importantly, RA/ARU or the west's call of ERU, have failed to deal with a national team based on here in Australia.

If money was not an issue and players were staying to compete and take part in Australian Rugby this would not be an issue. The facts don't support it. IMO the sabbatical was a gift for a chosen one, as is Hooper's contract, as was the forgiveness shown to Beale, and prior to that the favoritism shown to Elsom and Vickerman.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Yep it is. Look at Liam Gill as an example of a Qld son doing very well OS and what I see as a totally biased fixed system of selection that saw Hooper and Pocock virtually guaranteed the 7 spot between them no matter the form as the amount of money spent on their contracts even before Hooper's insane mega deal, meant they would be selected. Then RA ensured the continuance of that system with Pocock's sabbatical. What incentive was there for a very good player like Gill to remain and push for selection? Better to see RA for what it is and go overseas and truly develop their rugby, widen the metaphorical horizons and earn some coin at the same time. Just takes an acceptance that there will never be a Wallabies selection.

Then again think how those locks would be feeling having worked in our broken systems with poor coaching teams to now be faced with Wil Skelton (a personal favorite of mine, but I have never supported the Giteau law or the ridiculous sophistry that saw Elsom and Vickerman selected to play for the Wallabies despite not playing in Australia that year) to now look like walking back into a squad selection if not a starting spot. How can a player see such things and not get disheartened, there is no integrity in the systems and the contracting system.

Absolutely spot on.

Loyalty is a two way street.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yep it is. Look at Liam Gill as an example of a Qld son doing very well OS and what I see as a totally biased fixed system of selection that saw Hooper and Pocock virtually guaranteed the 7 spot between them no matter the form as the amount of money spent on their contracts even before Hooper's insane mega deal, meant they would be selected.

Your opposition to this seems to be based on the premise that if none of them were offered a good contract to keep them in Australia then all three would stay. I don't think that is a position that can be supported at all.

Gill was unfortunately a very, very good third choice behind two outstanding players. He was the obvious one to miss out on a big contract in Australia. It's the reality of professional sport.

The reality in Australian Rugby (and New Zealand) is that the test team is the major revenue generator and given the number of games played each year represents a large part of the earning potential for the players involved. That income can't be treated as being 100% at risk for all the players every year because that just isn't competitive with the offers available in the global market.

It would be great if no Wallaby contracts needed to be offered and that the rewards on offer were sufficient that all our key players wanted to stay despite a lot of their potential income being at risk but that just isn't the case.

 

[Derpus]

Yep it is. Look at Liam Gill as an example of a Qld son doing very well OS and what I see as a totally biased fixed system of selection that saw Hooper and Pocock virtually guaranteed the 7 spot between them no matter the form as the amount of money spent on their contracts even before Hooper's insane mega deal, meant they would be selected. Then RA ensured the continuance of that system with Pocock's sabbatical. What incentive was there for a very good player like Gill to remain and push for selection? Better to see RA for what it is and go overseas and truly develop their rugby, widen the metaphorical horizons and earn some coin at the same time. Just takes an acceptance that there will never be a Wallabies selection.

Then again think how those locks would be feeling having worked in our broken systems with poor coaching teams to now be faced with Wil Skelton (a personal favorite of mine, but I have never supported the Giteau law or the ridiculous sophistry that saw Elsom and Vickerman selected to play for the Wallabies despite not playing in Australia that year) to now look like walking back into a squad selection if not a starting spot. How can a player see such things and not get disheartened, there is no integrity in the systems and the contracting system.

Meh. How many players who couldn't make the cut went overseas and looked great then came back and where exactly as shit as they were before they left?

It's a consistent pattern. Pocock is one of the greatest ever 7s to play the game and Hooper isn't that far behind him. How exactly was Gill going to push for selection?

The system is bias, it picks the best players.

 

[Slim 293]

If money was not an issue and players were staying to compete and take part in Australian Rugby this would not be an issue. The facts don't support it. IMO the sabbatical was a gift for a chosen one, as is Hooper's contract, as was the forgiveness shown to Beale, and prior to that the favoritism shown to Elsom and Vickerman.

Well yes, you could say Pocock was a "chosen one"............ chosen to be given a flexible contract that kept him in Australian rugby for longer as he was one of our most influential players.

I don't see any problem with that?

 

[Strewthcobber]

If I was a pretty good player, I'd be striving to be one of these chose ones

 

[Jets]

If rumours are to believed, part of the reason Gill left is that the Reds told him they would change coaches when he re-signed for the extra year, they then went and re-signed Graham. There was a chance he would have stayed and battled for the Wallabies spot if the Reds had stuck to their word and changed coaches.

 

[The torpedo]

If rumours are to believed, part of the reason Gill left is that the Reds told him they would change coaches when he re-signed for the extra year, they then went and re-signed Graham. There was a chance he would have stayed and battled for the Wallabies spot if the Reds had stuck to their word and changed coaches.

Also worth noting that after Graham got sacked in round 2 (seriously, what was the point of hiring him for '16?) Giily supposedly tried to work his way out of the contract (but couldn't).

Far out the Graham era was a mess. Anyone here have any stories from that time?

 

[Tomikin]

If money was not an issue and players were staying to compete and take part in Australian Rugby this would not be an issue. The facts don't support it. IMO the sabbatical was a gift for a chosen one, as is Hooper's contract, as was the forgiveness shown to Beale, and prior to that the favoritism shown to Elsom and Vickerman.

Australian Rugby didn't pay for Pocock, he was paid for by a wealthy individual separate to RA. So no Money wasn't an issue. Liam Gill just wasn't as good at the time as Hooper or Pocock IMO, and then was coached by Dick Graham, so he left.

 

[dru]

Australian Rugby didn't pay for Pocock, he was paid for by a wealthy individual separate to RA. So no Money wasn't an issue. Liam Gill just wasn't as good at the time as Hooper or Pocock IMO, and then was coached by Dick Graham, so he left.

My opinion differs. Likely just not me here on this thread either.

 

[Tomikin]

My opinion differs. Likely just not me here on this thread either.

Guess the powers that be seen it like the rest of the forum..