Reds 2018

[Rugbynutter39]

So Cooper excluded from NRC and will have spent the season playing club rugby despite opportunities to play elsewhere with other oz franchises. I don't personally get Quade and his willingness to screw up his career prospects by playing club rugby...as it is not going to help his game cf playing professional rugby.....

 

[Scrubber2050]

Miller is a beetroot for saying that 10 year shit with Thorn, a totally inexperienced and losing coach.

That shows the incompetence of the bloke. Thorn has a record the same as Richard Graham. That is the reality.
Another reality is that Thorn, one way or another is sending the Reds broke. Great players don't necessarily make great or even good coaches.

Sure we all love the culture talk, blah blah. I hear that Lillycrap was forcibly removed for drunken and aggressive behaviour from a pub after the first Wallaby v Ireland match in Brisbane. That's a great example for the young players. Thorn, if he is the man he purports to be should sack him immediately. I know some of the PI lads look at him quite differently now.

Reds are in serious financial difficulties with monies owing to their major sponsor.
RA are circling and hopefully they pull the plug and sack the Board and the Coach as well.

I just want the Reds to be a powerhouse of Australian rugby instead of coming last (in Australia).

I will not be renewing my membership (possibly for 10 years)

 

[RedsHappy]

Jake White ..Brumbies..one man from nearly dead last too challenging for the final in about 12 months.. Chekia - Tahs one year then wins the comp.. Link - Reds .. you get the picture..

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Tomikin - you make a great point, one I have also made over the years here.

As you say, much recent data (esp in Super Rugby) supports the simple conclusion that the pro rugby HCs that go on to be real successes make quite fast, objective, quantifiable improvements to their team's performance in Year 1 of their engagement.

Making zero real measurable team outcome improvements - bar fairy floss statements about 'better culture' - in the first year of pro HC engagement is not an encouraging sign that 'things will only get better'.

Let's hope the pretty good progress of the Tahs this year (compared to the two last) will make Gibson the exception to the seeming rule come Finals time.

 

[neilc]

Fair call regarding Taylor and his coaching experience. I am just a little skeptical when coaches haven't been given the opportunity to be "the man". Also it seems not nearly the number of defensive coaches make the jump to HC compared with attack coaches.

That's a fair point - some coaches are suited to being assistant/specialist coaches and don't like the pressure perhaps of being 'the man'. Wayne Smith chose in recent years to just be an assistant, despite plenty of interest in having him as a head coach. He's unique I guess but some others may recognise that they are good in a particular area.

 

[RedsHappy]

Miller is a beetroot for saying that 10 year shit with Thorn, a totally inexperienced and losing coach.

That shows the incompetence of the bloke. Thorn has a record the same as Richard Graham. That is the reality.
Another reality is that Thorn, one way or another is sending the Reds broke. Great players don't necessarily make great or even good coaches.

Sure we all love the culture talk, blah blah. I hear that Lillycrap was forcibly removed for drunken and aggressive behaviour from a pub after the first Wallaby v Ireland match in Brisbane. That's a great example for the young players. Thorn, if he is the man he purports to be should sack him immediately. I know some of the PI lads look at him quite differently now.

Reds are in serious financial difficulties with monies owing to their major sponsor.
RA are circling and hopefully they pull the plug and sack the Board and the Coach as well.

I just want the Reds to be a powerhouse of Australian rugby instead of coming last (in Australia).

I will not be renewing my membership (possibly for 10 years)

S2050 - I hear these murmurings too.

Whilst I am far from completely enamoured with the calibre of RA executive resources I do agree they would do a better job of restructuring the Reds/QRU than the hapless and hopeless bunch we have had running the place in many recent periods.

Another 'hands off' band aid-type loan of the type the ARU granted the QRU in 2009/10 - leaving the current board and management in place - would ensure a catastrophic end game for all involved.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

That's a fair point - some coaches are suited to being assistant/specialist coaches and don't like the pressure perhaps of being 'the man'. Wayne Smith chose in recent years to just be an assistant, despite plenty of interest in having him as a head coach. He's unique I guess but some others may recognise that they are good in a particular area.

Exactly. Nick Styles is another good one.

 

[RedsHappy]

That's a fair point - some coaches are suited to being assistant/specialist coaches and don't like the pressure perhaps of being 'the man'. Wayne Smith chose in recent years to just be an assistant, despite plenty of interest in having him as a head coach. He's unique I guess but some others may recognise that they are good in a particular area.

To your good point - Stiles became an excellent set-piece coach in effect whilst at the Reds as HC or Co-HC. That's likely his limit professionally. I'm pleased the Rebels are using him in that capacity.

I know from many years in business - over-promoting executives (and coaches just as much) can be a far crueller and more damaging event than under-promoting them as the former can destroy people's careers and their innate self-confidence, often forever.

Good under-promoted people if they stay that way inevitably leave an organisation and find their growth opportunities elsewhere but are not killed off in the process.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Reds are in serious financial difficulties with monies owing to their major sponsor.
RA are circling and hopefully they pull the plug and sack the Board and the Coach as well.

Worth mentioning that the major sponsor is St Georges Bank who the Reds have a longstanding loan and overdraft facility.Interest payment of these facilities is due monthly......

See page 95 of last years financial report for more details on the issues
http://online.fliphtml5.com/xsol/jfhq/#p=95

Also worth mentioning that Jeff MIller is head of the Queensland division of a different bank
https://www.boqspecialist.com.au/specialists/jeff-miller/

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

To your good point - Stiles became an excellent set-piece coach in effect whilst at the Reds as HC or Co-HC. That's likely his limit professionally. I'm pleased the Rebels are using him in that capacity.

I know from many years in business - over-promoting executives (and coaches just as much) can be a far crueller and more damaging event than under-promoting them as the former can destroy people's careers and their innate self-confidence, often forever.

Good under-promoted people if they stay that way inevitably leave an organisation and find their growth opportunities elsewhere but are not killed off in the process.

Looks like I just beat you to that one RH

 

[Tomikin]

That's a fair point - some coaches are suited to being assistant/specialist coaches and don't like the pressure perhaps of being 'the man'. Wayne Smith chose in recent years to just be an assistant, despite plenty of interest in having him as a head coach. He's unique I guess but some others may recognise that they are good in a particular area.

Laurie Fisher has done the same, saying head coach isnt for him..

 

[dru]

Miller is a beetroot for saying that 10 year shit with Thorn, a totally inexperienced and losing coach.

That shows the incompetence of the bloke. Thorn has a record the same as Richard Graham. That is the reality.
Another reality is that Thorn, one way or another is sending the Reds broke. Great players don't necessarily make great or even good coaches.

Sure we all love the culture talk, blah blah. I hear that Lillycrap was forcibly removed for drunken and aggressive behaviour from a pub after the first Wallaby v Ireland match in Brisbane. That's a great example for the young players. Thorn, if he is the man he purports to be should sack him immediately. I know some of the PI lads look at him quite differently now.

Reds are in serious financial difficulties with monies owing to their major sponsor.
RA are circling and hopefully they pull the plug and sack the Board and the Coach as well.

I just want the Reds to be a powerhouse of Australian rugby instead of coming last (in Australia).

I will not be renewing my membership (possibly for 10 years)

FUCK_ME

It’s one thing losing the rusted on, and there is the non rustable. Scrub, I started with amusement with you calling Miller “Beetroot”. (It seems a fitting nick name.)

But I feel your pain, bloke. Empathy.

 

[Gnostic]

One key thing not mentioned, is that Cheika in 2014 and Link in 2010 both inherited very good squads that needed some rounding out and some work on different aspects of their games to make them genuine contenders. I have long argued that the ground work for Link at the Reds was set by Mooney and the excellent backs play they had in 2009. For Cheika he in heirited a team able to play a statistically good game which gave Cheika very good foundations and a great squad to begin with.

To say that a new Head Coach (not to mention the support coaches also) come and miraculously turn it around in two seasons is a long reach. That is not to deride the impact that Cheika and Link had in their respective terms at the start, but they also benefitted from strong ground work strong starting squads.

I contrast that to Gibson at the Tahs who I have said from the start has been hamstrung by poor squad recruitment since 2015 and in his first year also had Nathan Grey as defence coach with that horrible shite defensive structure that saw the Wallabies with one of the leakiest defences I have ever witnessed in a Wallabies team. In judging his tenure this is his first real year of clear air and IMO the performance of the side has been very good in general, with some very good rugby played. Individual skill failures such as Foley's kicking from hand continue to plague but in the matters that Gibson can directly control I think the outcomes from my POV are very good.

This contrasts with Thorn IMO, who has developed and selected a very strong pack, which he largely inherited as the others did, but he gambled that this would perhaps provide enough of a platform that a rookie or journeyman 10, whilst both good players, could spark enough of a backline to win games. Much of the angst comes back to the mismanagement of the Cooper fiasco. Hunt and Slipper to a lesser extent I can understand. Cooper has no such public incidents in the last 6 or 7 years with which to justify this removal. This has left him open to the justified questioning of his entire approach and suitability for the role given the results and the fact that he has extremely limited coaching experience.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Thorn is merely a ROBOT. He is not innovative. Same shit day in, day out.

His man management skills, essential for a HC are non-existent.
Younger players are "captivated" by his playing record, older, more experienced players are
much more realistic in their "support".

I have heard (take it or leave it) that some experienced players within Australia (and ones who may return from Japan and Europe) wouldn't consider signing with the Reds because of Thorn and the clusterfuck Reds Administration UNLESS it was a last resort option.

Reds supportrs deserve better, on the field and off it as well.

Reckon the crowd this game will reflect supporters frustrations.

 

[Beer Baron]

I contrast that to Gibson at the Tahs who I have said from the start has been hamstrung by poor squad recruitment since 2015 and in his first year also had Nathan Grey as defence coach with that horrible shite defensive structure that saw the Wallabies with one of the leakiest defences I have ever witnessed in a Wallabies team. In judging his tenure this is his first real year of clear air and IMO the performance of the side has been very good in general, with some very good rugby played. Individual skill failures such as Foley's kicking from hand continue to plague but in the matters that Gibson can directly control I think the outcomes from my POV are very good.

The same Nathan Grey and Wallabies the just let in 1 try per game against no. 2 side in the world?

 

[sunnyboys]

Sounds coming out of Reds HQ aren’t great...

Chairman and CEO cut/resign in quick succession. Replaced by a former CEO as Chairman and acting CEO it appears. And a private banker to boot. He’s looking a lot like a quasi-administrator in the insolvency sense. First admissions of financial strife and RA support.
Next comes sounds about not centralisation, not that that’s a bad thing he says, but alignment. RA weighing in on how it’s wages are being wasted and answers demanded... more RA support for Thorn.

Be careful Reds when they start asking to buy the Brand IP!

It makes you wonder just what state the financials are in...

 

[dru]

Sounds coming out of Reds HQ aren’t great.

Chairman and CEO cut/resign in quick succession. Replaced by a former CEO as Chairman and acting CEO it appears. And a private banker to boot. He’s looking a lot like a quasi-administrator in the insolvency sense. First admissions of financial strife and RA support.
Next comes sounds about not centralisation, not that that’s a bad thing he says, but alignment. RA weighing in on how it’s wages are being wasted and answers demanded. more RA support for Thorn.

Be careful Reds when they start asking to buy the Brand IP!

It makes you wonder just what state the financials are in.

What is utterly disheartening is that what rugby fans actually need right now are solid RUs, particularly NSW and Qld, standing up and holding RA to account.

 

[Ignoto]

The same Nathan Grey and Wallabies the just let in 1 try per game against no. 2 side in the world?

The same Grey system leaked 313 points at an international level last year with two occasions of 50+ points let in.

A similar argument is said for the Reds this season. We saw glimpses/periods where the defence was good but then when you start to extrapolate over the season its just as leaky as last year.

 

[Tangawizi]

The same Grey system leaked 313 points at an international level last year with two occasions of 50+ points let in.

A similar argument is said for the Reds this season. We saw glimpses/periods where the defence was good but then when you start to extrapolate over the season its just as leaky as last year.

It's actually worse if you do quick "points conceded/games played" calc. On track to be the first Reds team to leak over 500pts in a season.

Newstead has a 9.8% beer on tap now. I think I'll be picking that instead of the "Ballymore" before I head into the stadium tonight.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Brumby Runner]

Exactly. Nick Styles is another good one.

Alec Evans - the scrum doctor? Don't know if he ever was offered a HC job, but I can't say that I ever saw him mentioned as such. But he was known pretty well world-wide for his scrum coaching.

 

[Jerry West]

Thorn is merely a ROBOT. He is not innovative. Same shit day in, day out.

His man management skills, essential for a HC are non-existent.
Younger players are "captivated" by his playing record, older, more experienced players are
much more realistic in their "support".

I have heard (take it or leave it) that some experienced players within Australia (and ones who may return from Japan and Europe) wouldn't consider signing with the Reds because of Thorn and the clusterfuck Reds Administration UNLESS it was a last resort option.

Reds supportrs deserve better, on the field and off it as well.

Reckon the crowd this game will reflect supporters frustrations.

It’s going to get worst for the Reds this off-season. A number of players have had enough and are moving on at the seasons end, almost up to 12 players including a young wallaby back that will link up with the Broncos