Reds 2018

[Gnostic]

Unfortunately. Depression being an excuse to drug use is common place in society.



You only have to go down to your local magistrate court and listen to the defense lawyers who are fighting tooth and nail to keep their clients out of jail and any drug related crime usually has a depression angle attached to the defense argument.



I think talkback radio land is sick & tired of criminals not being held accountable for their actions and their drug use & James Slipper has been thrown into that stereotype.

This is a very good point. Debate in modern society in the age of the internet is being controlled by moderation and by overwhelming attacks from people who are "offended" at any counter argument, such as opposing quotas formal or informal in parliamentary representation and in situations like this. I have no doubt that some are ready to jump on Sth X for not being acceptably sympathetic for the mental illness so prevalent in society.

Edit *** Dru's response to the Pillock above is a good case in point, Dismal has a long history of parody and sarcasm in his posts on any subject to address the key points and I do not see that he has crossed any line except to as inelegantly as usual put a point in the debate.""""

Lets just look at some fundamentals, drugs of most recreational types if not all are not conducive to high performance in an athletic sense or even in a mental sense. So for people in high performance areas to imbibe substances the question must be asked are they fit to hold those positions and receive the inflated salaries in such case. It may be the case that in such high pressure environments some individuals are not suited to the job and cannot function at the required level regardless of their talents and to continue to encourage them to do so is injurious to them, when we could say, 'shit mate its Ok to not be perfect and I have had enough' and give it away and be truthful about the why of it.

Now nothing in that statement precludes the organisation supporting their employee/contractor in seeking a remedy if they have a genuine medical issue. Now I say genuine medical issue, because as pointed out by Sthern X the courts are over run with people avoiding responsibility for their actions pleading some medical condition, not once but time and time again. Shall I say I have to join the ranks of the perpetually offended on this point - far too many people use such excuses to cover their poor life choices, and I find it demeaning to those who have genuinely struggled to always do the right thing and suffered and struggled. Now we don't know anything about what has happened in this case and I do not care to speculate and do not support anybody assuming or reporting on it (if the full story cannot/will not be reported report none of the reasons).

I have zero sympathy or empathy for drug use. Do not care and will not accept the excuses, I have heard them all my life and seen the results first hand.

Now on the totally separate matter of mental illness in men, as Cyclo pointed out Men do not deal with the issues well, but IMO and direct experience the systems are feminized to the point that a lot of men are not comfortable in confronting those issues via the counselling etc route in the modes that are favoured. We cannot ignore the fact that the systems and treatment programs that are used currently are failing dismally with the rate of suicide being approx. 75% male (http://www.mindframe-media.info/for-media/reporting-suicide/facts-and-stats). I cannot and care not to count the number of former colleges I have lost to suicide with most abusing alcohol and in some cases prescription drugs on the way.

 

[charlesalan]

Whether it is OK to take cocaine has nothing to do with depression. Whether depression leads to problems is another issue.

DP, you play your persona well but you step over the line here.

well that's your opinion . I think he says it like it is.

 

[Derpus]

my mental state is neither here nor there. So judging by this thread, its a-ok for the depressed to take cocaine to "help them heal". Riiiiighhhhht. Must be a cultural difference at play here cos if I were to be busted with cocaine here on the North West Pitcairns I doubt the cops would give me a loving hug and a cup of tea and accompany me on a gentle walk home to start my "healing". It'd be 50 lashes, followed by dawn deportation, then a public stoning at high noon outside Bumfuck Atoll Airport, then extradition back to Pitcairns to face 3 days in the stocks while Byron reads me poetry, then another deportation, this time to GoFuckYourself Atoll for a dip in the boiling oil jacuzzi followed by exhumation and deportation back to Pitcairns to start a 20 year sentence in the cell next to Byron's. So, in the end, I'd wind up pretty much where I am now, fuckit, pm me your dealers hookup if youre reading this James​

To understand all is to forgive all. Blokes do dumb things when they are in a bad place. And anyway, he's getting punished right? He didn't get busted by the cops anywho.

Real problem here for Slipper is that the tail end of a coke bender is not where you wanna be if you are already depressed.

 

[Derpus]

Dunno. Give it whatever name you want, but men (in general) are shit at talking about it. Or empathising. In my experience. If it makes discussion in any way easier, so be it.
But, yeah, there is a stigma. Shouldn’t be, but there is.


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If you are under 45 the most likely cause of death is suicide, for men. I think that may have been a UK statistic.

Edit: http://www.football365.com/news/men-dont-be-like-football-dont-bottle-it-up-mental-health-depression

Unfortunately. Depression being an excuse to drug use is common place in society.

You only have to go down to your local magistrate court and listen to the defense lawyers who are fighting tooth and nail to keep their clients out of jail and any drug related crime usually has a depression angle attached to the defense argument.

I think talkback radio land is sick & tired of criminals not being held accountable for their actions and their drug use & James Slipper has been thrown into that stereotype.

Talk back radio land is for fucking assholes anyway. Fuck em.

While we are on the topic, heres a link to a bunch of numbers you can contact if you need some help with stuff, including depression:

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/national-help-lines-and-websites

I guess mensline is probably the most relevant here:

https://mensline.org.au/?gclid=CjwK...FMJOVnVwo0NGR2pqowuZjfy8_s-8duBxoCeIkQAvD_BwE

 

[RedsHappy]

‘The family tragedy that sparked a Wallaby’s unravelling’

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-a-wallaby-s-unravelling-20180524-p4zhbq.html

 

[Gnostic]

‘The family tragedy that sparked a Wallaby’s unravelling’



https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/the-family-tragedy-that-sparked-a-wallaby-s-unravelling-20180524-p4zhbq.html

Thanks for Posting RH, cannot like it as such. A truly shit position to be in, and one that many of us over 40 can appreciate all too well.

 

[Tomikin]

What a shot position, but Jim Tucker has written an article saying back in 2015 there was smoke around Slipper..But denied and not proven.. Maybe cocaine caused the depression and the injuries / cancer pushed him to risk it all.

Depression funny it doesn't have to mean your sad sack.. Its pressure on you.. You can't talk about it.. You say it's OK.. But it makes your bones hurt..

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[Zero_Cool]

So how about that team list?

Throwing Harry Hockings into the starting job!
Persisting with Lucas at 9, remember when I was the only one saying he's going to play 9 or not at all? I didn't imagine him starting!

 

[Ignoto]

Ok Ig, I see you been looking and perhaps I shouldn't of said All Black , but say an opposing player from anywhere or from another sport! You have proved my point with your post, posting Patrick Tuipulotus' test which was a mistke as when it was rechecked he was exonerated completely, but it didn't appear to make news to you because he wasn't from a team you follow.
I thank you for helping to prove my point!

Mate it was like the third google result after searching for “all black drug use suspension”. There was no follow up article anywhere to say he was clean. The results before it were about a Carter’s failed test which was rectified. If the article about him getting a second clean result doesn’t come up, how can you expect someone to have that knowledge?

 

[charlesalan]

in some professions one drug bust and you're gone, no questions. Ok, Rugby isn't one of those professions, but surely these elite players, who are paid a shit load to run around the paddock doing what they love, know what the expectations are. It's about self control. If Slipper didn't know how good he had it before, maybe he needs a bigger reality check than a small fine and two weeks off.

 

[ShtinaTina]

in some professions one drug bust and you're gone, no questions. Ok, Rugby isn't one of those professions, but surely these elite players, who are paid a shit load to run around the paddock doing what they love, know what the expectations are. It's about self control. If Slipper didn't know how good he had it before, maybe he needs a bigger reality check than a small fine and two weeks off.

Please. Just stop. Have a re-read of James’ statement.

Small fine? He’s been fined $27500 twice —— $55000 isn’t a small fine is it?
It’s 2 months too.

If you’re going to comment, get the details close to correct for everyones sake.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The Slipper unravelling apparently began with the death of his grandfather which I think might have been about the time he had a shoulder problem.

in some professions one drug bust and you're gone, no questions. Ok, Rugby isn't one of those professions, but surely these elite players, who are paid a shit load to run around the paddock doing what they love, know what the expectations are. It's about self control. If Slipper didn't know how good he had it before, maybe he needs a bigger reality check than a small fine and two weeks off.

Yep - grind him into the ground, break his will, humiliate him further, punish him financially and generally make sure he feels even more worthless: that’s the message we should send to our heroes when we find they have feet of clay.
“We’re only interested in you for as long as you serve a rugby purpose: the wider you? That’s your problem.”
These blokes are not used to failure so when they get a run of injuries for the first time they lose the only measure of self worth they have ever known. To then have family tragedy piled on top places them in a place they’ve never been and which they have no skills to deal with.
He’s 28.
He’s played rugby for a living and if he worked otherwise it was only to feed his rugby dream. What most of us learn about rejection and failure when we don’t make the top team at 18 or 20 he never confronted.

 

[charlesalan]

^^ oh cry me a river
if he can't take the heat , best get out of the kitchen

 

[Sauron]

^^ oh cry me a river
if he can't take the heat , best get out of the kitchen

That’s a disgusting response. People like you are partly responsible for our consistent failure to adequately deal with mental health issues in this country.

Take a good hard look at yourself, and think about maybe taking some time away from this forum.

 

[fatprop]

‘The family tragedy that sparked a Wallaby’s unravelling’

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-a-wallaby-s-unravelling-20180524-p4zhbq.html

A bloody well set out article, I hope he gets the support to get through this

 

[Gnostic]

That’s a disgusting response. People like you are partly responsible for our consistent failure to adequately deal with mental health issues in this country.



Take a good hard look at yourself, and think about maybe taking some time away from this forum.

I would ask you to read my post above about stopping debate. The point was poorly made and lacking empathy of any kind, but actually pushing others away and silencing them is not debate and is not going to fix the issue, or change the one line inelegant responses which have at their root a kernel of truth.

I would also suggest the paragraph where I suggest that if people cannot for whatever reason cannot perform at the level required they can and should be encouraged to actually confront that fact, especially men, in a way that is not an expression of weakness and there is no accusation or blame. It should also not be a permanent step, but one that can be retraced and the sufferer can come back from.

Therein lies the conundrum for people with Depression, and in the emergency/military services PTSD, if management finds out you have this you are gone. No stepping back and assessing, no "time out". This shit is a part of life not for a minority but for a very large section of the community and our processes have to be better at not only identifying, but tailoring treatment to the individual and allowing them a genuine road back.

I do not advocate or suggest Slipper should be "out of the kitchen" but in this and all cases where depression is genuinely diagnosed and the employment is a factor the question must be asked if the employment is a factor and if the person is able to not only return to work but do so in a way that is not deleterious to them in the long term and if the answer is no the process must be such that it does not blame or compound the illness by imposing a sense of loss and failure on the person.

 

[Sauron]

I would ask you to read my post above about stopping debate. The point was poorly made and lacking empathy of any kind, but actually pushing others away and silencing them is not debate and is not going to fix the issue, or change the one line inelegant responses which have at their root a kernel of truth.

Frankly, I think this is absurd. No amount of ‘debate’ on the internet will ‘fix the issue’. It’s completely perverse to think that strangers talking on the internet about mental illness in response to tragedy will have any meaningful outcome.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Jim Tucker has written an article saying back in 2015 there was smoke around Slipper..But denied and not proven.. Maybe cocaine caused the depression and the injuries / cancer pushed him to risk it all.

yeah i clearly just do not get it. James Slipper got himself busted for cocaine. Twice. Was he depressed? Was it horse or cart? Who knows. Only Slipper really knows. Cue Tina & her GAGR white knights rushing in to defend him on here saying he needs "time to heal." Maybe he does. Maybe after Vickerman he needs EVERY benefit of the doubt. But how can the shrill hordes rampaging up and down this thread be so very, very sure it's not a bit of an alibi? And anyone who implies otherwise needs to "get off the forum". And would the response have been the same if, say, a KHunt comes out and says he was depressed too? Would establish a nice and convenient alibi for the next rugby coke bust. "Um, yeah, I was depressed. Don't judge me. I need, uh, time to heal."​

 

[Dan54]

yeah i clearly just do not get it. James Slipper got himself busted for cocaine. Twice. Was he depressed? Was it horse or cart? Who knows. Only Slipper really knows. Cue Tina & her GAGR white knights rushing in to defend him on here saying he needs "time to heal." Maybe he does. Maybe after Vickerman he needs EVERY benefit of the doubt. But how can the shrill hordes rampaging up and down this thread be so very, very sure it's not a bit of an alibi? And anyone who implies otherwise needs to "get off the forum". And would the response have been the same if, say, a KHunt comes out and says he was depressed too? Would establish a nice and convenient alibi for the next rugby coke bust. "Um, yeah, I was depressed. Don't judge me. I need, uh, time to heal."

Geez DP that basically what I have been getting shit for posting!! I just think we need to treat EVERY case the same, wherever he is from, whatever code he plays, whether he is thought of as a nice guy or not!! And once you do that you have to do it through all cases of drug use, not just sportsmen. So anyone that looks down or sneers at Druggies etc they see on the street would no doubt be judging Slipper exactly the same, or are shall we say a touch 2 faced! Perhaps it a lesson to judgemental people?
Anyway ,that's enough from me on the subject, I will go back to actual rugby posts!

 

[Gnostic]

Frankly, I think this is absurd. No amount of ‘debate’ on the internet will ‘fix the issue’. It’s completely perverse to think that strangers talking on the internet about mental illness in response to tragedy will have any meaningful outcome.

Really? Social media of all forms is the most pervasive mode of communication around, not just now but ever. This is just another platform with a specific focus.

If you accept Facebook and Twitter can have an impact than why not GAGR? I think your response is more than absurd its just a reactive defence of your previous denunciation and a double down to control what is posted by the pressure of conformity. GAGR does have an impact, on its users, I am actual proof of that in my situation and the friendships that I have developed with GAGR people away from the net in real life after meeting here. Those relationships are the debates we started online have impacted my thinking away from here and helped me greatly through some of my rough patches. You may well consider me absurd, and you wouldn't be the first (and won't be the last), but that position is ridiculous.