Reds 2018

[Braveheart81]

Braveheart, you are correct but I think your context wrong. If giving something a name like "the black dog" helps blokes talk about the issue it's a good thing, not a negative. It is also a descriptor that any bloke I know who has been through it can describe.

Give it a medical term if it helps, but the "dog" gets men to open up.

I don't disagree. I was merely making an observation. I find it interesting how many people use this term particularly when discussing a news story where the player has specifically said they have been suffering from depression.

I think anything that makes people more open to discussing and getting help for depression is a good thing. If people need to couch it in a different way because they feel uncomfortable using the word then that is fine.

 

[Braveheart81]

I imagine there are plenty of users on the bored

Maybe beforehand, but not during.

 

[Dan54]

Sometimes you Kiwis really don’t do your whole chip on the shoulder image any good.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...t-for-a-banned-substance-20170205-gu5oiq.html

Four NZ players busted for dabbling in the dark arts of PEDs https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/42630419

Seriously not an appropriate time to be pissing and moaning about trivial fan shit to be frank.

Ok Ig, I see you been looking and perhaps I shouldn't of said All Black , but say an opposing player from anywhere or from another sport! You have proved my point with your post, posting Patrick Tuipulotus' test which was a mistke as when it was rechecked he was exonerated completely, but it didn't appear to make news to you because he wasn't from a team you follow.
I thank you for helping to prove my point!

 

[kiap]

The "black dog" metaphor is older than white Australia.

It goes at least as far back as Samuel Johnson, and probably to Apollonius and Horace (before Christ).

 

[cyclopath]

Is talking about "the black dog" just another example of men (in particular) not wanting to talk about depression and being depressed?

People want to give it a colloquial name as they want to avoid the stigma attached to the actual name of the issue?

Dunno. Give it whatever name you want, but men (in general) are shit at talking about it. Or empathising. In my experience. If it makes discussion in any way easier, so be it.
But, yeah, there is a stigma. Shouldn’t be, but there is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dan54]

Couldn't agree more, if the words Black Dog help people get assistance all the better.

 

[ShtinaTina]

...but if we came in here and saw an All Black had been found guilty of the same offence I seriously doubt there would be any or very little feeling sorry for him, but a lot of yeah well we are better than that, and I almost guarantee there are a few idiots on NZ, Saffa etc etc sites doing exactly that and calling for him to be barred for years.
I believe it a lesson to all, and not just about drugs!

No, on the first part you are wrong. I find it offensive that you have suggested as such.

The world has come a bit of a way in the last 10 years with the understanding & management of mental health & the issues that are associated with it. Reducing the stigma associated with mental health, understanding it's okay to be not okay is helping, but we have a long way to go.

But yes, this isn't just about drugs. It's much bigger than just drugs.

I feel for James, I hope he is okay, is getting the support that he needs, the time that he needs to heal & that he continues for the rest of his life to do so.

 

[Dan54]

Look I hope James get's the help he needs, but I never saw much support for K Hunt , but remember people, to keep that exact same thought in your minds next time you are discussing the Addicts/Alcoholics etc etc you see on the streets! Because they could of had exactly the same battle with depression etc as James without the support etc he had! I have members of my and wifes families addicted to drugs, and I stick by what I said , I have seen the different way people react to them, and take my word it depends on whether they are immediate family or not etc usually!

 

[Braveheart81]

Look I hope James get's the help he needs, but I never saw much support for K Hunt !

The sympathy and support isn't for the fact that Slipper tested positive for cocaine.

If Hunt wasn't a repeat offender and the circumstances weren't that he got arrested whilst presumably out partying then feelings towards him would probably be quite different.

 

[Dan54]

Um BH, I not knocking Slipper, but he is a repeat offender, he been tested positive TWICE!! As I said I of the opinion it's only coke FFS, let's not make a big deal of it! And as for the Black Dog I really feel for him, but remember did he get treatment for it before or after his first test? I know the "handbook" in the mines used to be if you test positive for Coke immediately claim you are depressed and the company would send and pay for your help!
Just to add I think we should all read JK's book on how he battled depression for years when an All Black and he has lead a fight to get it recognised ever since (actually why he was knighted).

 

[Strewthcobber]

Tom Curry not as lucky as Mr Slipper

 

[Braveheart81]

Um BH, I not knocking Slipper, but he is a repeat offender, he been tested positive TWICE!! A

It was February and May 2018. I think it is reasonable to suggest this is the same fuckup.

Tom Curry not as lucky as Mr Slipper

Absolutely. If Slipper had tested positive in an in-competition test (i.e. after a match), he'd have been banned for 2-4 years under WADA/ASADA rules.

 

[dru]

Dan you’re still using that same brush. Some of us did indeed advocate for Hunt.

And the two are not analogous. One involves mental health, one is purely smarts and recreation.

 

[emuarse]

Dan you’re still using that same brush. Some of us did indeed advocate for Hunt.

And the two are not analogous. One involves mental health, one is purely smarts and recreation.

Though where does one start, and the other finish?

 

[Dan54]

Dan you’re still using that same brush. Some of us did indeed advocate for Hunt.

And the two are not analogous. One involves mental health, one is purely smarts and recreation.

Exactly, and I not using same brush for everyone dru, just for a few and I apologise if anyone thinks I meant everyone.
I also ask like Emu where one starts and finishes.
I had a case of a fairly good friend having a problem with depression for a couple of years, and funnily enough she didn't turn to drugs. And that is not a criticism of Slipper in anyway, but I think sometimes we make bad choices in how we handle our problems, as Slipper himself has said.There is no excuse to turn to it.
I repeat what I said I don't think snorting a little coke is the end of the world, and I hope he got help for his probelms BEFORE he got caught first time!

 

[redveincheese]

I wish James Slipper all the best of luck in his future days battling what is both a physical an mental addiction. It will be
a hard road for quite some time for him. I would say his career at the reds is finished and that will add to his uphill battle. I am sure he has the support of friends and family which will be invaluable.

I am very disgusted by some of the media reaction I heard today especially from local talkback radio suggesting his admission of dealing with depression was just a cop out used to excuse his use of illicit drugs. There is no reason to believe you cannot take the mans words as truth and regardless of his reasons for starting to use drugs it has now escalated to the point of a mental and physical illness which has damaged himself and those around him badly.

People deal with problems in their lives differently, yes not everyone that has depression resorts to drug or alcohol use however many do. They deserve support to hopefully pull them out of a certain death spiral. Usually those affected only change when they hit rock bottom. James may or may not be at that point yet but to judge him as some I have heard today is not helping anyone.

 

[SouthernX]

I am very disgusted by some of the media reaction I heard today especially from local talkback radio suggesting his admission of dealing with depression was just a cop out used to excuse his use of illicit drugs.

Unfortunately... Depression being an excuse to drug use is common place in society.

You only have to go down to your local magistrate court and listen to the defense lawyers who are fighting tooth and nail to keep their clients out of jail and any drug related crime usually has a depression angle attached to the defense argument.

I think talkback radio land is sick & tired of criminals not being held accountable for their actions and their drug use & James Slipper has been thrown into that stereotype.

 

[ShtinaTina]

@Dan54 if I were you I’d stop digging your hole.

You’ve said the same thing a few times and in my opinion you don’t seem to grasp the differences between situations. I am sorry your extended family members have suffered from drug addiction & I hope they have got the help they need.

You reference the mines & their protocol, from what has been reported The Reds & ARU/RA have done what they’re meant to & are continuing to do so.

Have you thought he wasn’t stood down the first time because physical activity & routine are also part of his mental health plan?

I do hope, for your sake, your understanding of mental health & addictions is growing due to your interactions on this forum. I hope you learn and grow.

I am pretty confident in suggesting had James been on healthy mind, he wouldn’t have pursued using Cocaine as a substance in a way that he got caught, I doubt it was a conscious decision to abuse the rules.

The dismissal of it “just being coke” isn’t a wise one. It affects brain chemistry, not helpful in anyone battling depression as it is.

Mental health is a sad and interesting part of life which society has so much to learn about it as far as addictions, causes and treatments.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

You've obviously never had to deal with the Black Dog DP

my mental state is neither here nor there. So judging by this thread, its a-ok for the depressed to take cocaine to "help them heal". Riiiiighhhhht. Must be a cultural difference at play here cos if I were to be busted with cocaine here on the North West Pitcairns I doubt the cops would give me a loving hug and a cup of tea and accompany me on a gentle walk home to start my "healing". It'd be 50 lashes, followed by dawn deportation, then a public stoning at high noon outside Bumfuck Atoll Airport, then extradition back to Pitcairns to face 3 days in the stocks while Byron reads me poetry, then another deportation, this time to GoFuckYourself Atoll for a dip in the boiling oil jacuzzi followed by exhumation and deportation back to Pitcairns to start a 20 year sentence in the cell next to Byron's. So, in the end, I'd wind up pretty much where I am now, fuckit, pm me your dealers hookup if youre reading this James​

 

[dru]

my mental state is neither here nor there. So judging by this thread, its a-ok for the depressed to take cocaine to "help them heal". Riiiiighhhhht. Must be a cultural difference at play here cos if I were to be busted with cocaine here on the North West Pitcairns I doubt the cops would give me a loving hug and a cup of tea and accompany me on a gentle walk home to start my "healing". It'd be 50 lashes, followed by dawn deportation, then a public stoning at high noon outside Bumfuck Atoll Airport, then extradition back to Pitcairns to face 3 days in the stocks while Byron reads me poetry, then another deportation, this time to GoFuckYourself Atoll for a dip in the boiling oil jacuzzi followed by exhumation and deportation back to Pitcairns to start a 20 year sentence in the cell next to Byron's. So, in the end, I'd wind up pretty much where I am now, fuckit, pm me your dealers hookup if youre reading this James​

Whether it is OK to take cocaine has nothing to do with depression. Whether depression leads to problems is another issue.

DP, you play your persona well but you step over the line here.