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Reds 2018

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Jimmy_Crouch

Peter Johnson (47)
I thought Kane had a shocker. That poses the biggest question for us with Rodda out. Do we stick with Douglas and help he rediscovers the form of 3 years ago (again) or do we go with one of the youngsters?

I thought CFS defensive work was average as well and in fact the 12, 13, 14 combo does worry me, although Duncan and Samu are my first choices.

I'm also guessing Adam K keeps the 7 jersey?

So I'm guessing

1 Slipper
2 BPA
3 Tupou
4 Tui
5 Douglas
6 Timu
7 Adam K
8 Higgers

9 Tuttle
10 Lance
11 Perese (injury permitting)
12 Duncan P
13 Kerevi
14 Daugunu (he just looks too good for mine)
15 Toua

16 Mafi
17 Smith
18 Fa'agase
19 Hocking (assume Blythe is injured?)
20 Gunn
21 Sorovi
22 Stewart
23 CFS

Pretty harsh to single out Douglas from that performance. He was hitting hard in defense and smacking rucks. He dropped it a number of times but so did everyone (it was humid like you couldn't believe). I thought he was much more involved than Tui. Tui and Timu both seem to be getting a free ride based on potential. Watching Timu in club rugby he wasn't that impressive and in the NRC where he lifted I still thought he was overrated and should not have been player of the comp.
 
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Jimmy_Crouch

Peter Johnson (47)
You'd think that there would be no super rugby team better trained in how to deal with a slippery ball than the reds, given their entire pre-season is in some of the most humid conditions outside of the equatorial regions.

But I am constantly left with the suspicion that the reds don't actually spend much time doing ball work, if their handling is any indicator.

Ball work in the first 15 mins was awesome. Great passing especially from Jimmy T, Lance and DP. Quick short passes. Toua joined the line and consistently threw the ball to the inside shoulder of the runner (he did throw one real beauty though). If anyone knows Geoff Mould (my old coach) he would have been loving it.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
My thoughts on the game were overall underwhelming and a tad uninspiring. I am tempering that though with the horrible conditions, the fact that we had very little ball and the fact that our starting 10 & 15 were two guys that have only recently been training with the group.

I felt Toua was really quite meh, but I do think I need to give him time to settle into the group and work out his role etc. CFS looked more enthusiastic than I've seen him in ages but as Reg said, I think defensively it wasn't a great night for him. Not a shocker but not great. Perese was great and Duncan too. The backline overall looked fairly unorganised and toward the end when we were stringing multiple phases together 10m out from the Fiji line it seemed like we were completely clueless. Sort that out fast, we need to be 100% sure of what we want to do in that situation and be able to execute clinically.

I really like the front row. Tupou was good and seems to be growing into his game well. I think he does enough in tight. his particular skill set is best utilised in the wider channels and that's where he should be focused. Unless we are getting beaten at the ruck them I'm happy for him to stay a bit looser only playing tighter when required. The starting hooker was wonderful, he looks right at home and looks the goods. Tui was fine and we will be well served when him and Rodda are paired up but until then I'm not sure what we do because Douglas seems to be struggling to find his groove. I had hoped Timu would provide a bit more impact but hopefully that will come. Higgers was great. Korcyzk was fine but I really wish we had more of an on-baller in there. One thing I did note was that Timu's skills at the back of the scrum were really poor - he's no number 8. In a scrum moving forward he struggled to both get the ball out or keep it in. I imagine Higgers will play 80 most weeks though so that's probably a moot point.

From the bench, McDermott looks to have a great pass but Sorovi is so quick. Don't know which one is the best fit for our bench 9. My gut says Sorovi. Reserve front row were all good which bodes well. Hockings looks to be a good young prospect. Angus Scott-Young was good and as an old Sam Scott-Young fan from way back it was really weird but cool to see a young lookalike running around out there. Stewart didn't look comfortable for some reason but when he came on the whole team was a bit of a rabble so to be expected to a degree. Daugunu is good and should start on the wing I think.

Hope we start gelling as a team soon and start finding our structures and patterns sooner rather than later or we won't trouble too many teams.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
You'd think that there would be no super rugby team better trained in how to deal with a slippery ball than the reds, given their entire pre-season is in some of the most humid conditions outside of the equatorial regions.

But I am constantly left with the suspicion that the reds don't actually spend much time doing ball work, if their handling is any indicator.

Flabergasting isn't it?

One of the interesting things (that came out of my digging into the Saffers this preseason) was the attitude and strategy shift at the Sharks. Currie Cup was about forwards, possession, percentage rugby - winning with no apology around (not being) entertaining. They were rolled in the final. Strategy was hastily reconsidered in preparation for Soup. This time there was very little training in the absence of a rugby ball. Gym, strength and conditioning etc had to happen in the background or while naturally developing ball skills.

It's lesson, or maybe simply guidance, that I wish Robert du Preez would pass on to Brad. Muscle work, ethics, team environment, fronting up etc - it all means little if they don't know what a rugby ball is.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Peter Johnson (47)
When was the last time Douglas had a good game?

Mate in the NRC last year (v Vikings) Douglas had a monster of a game. He tackled hard and belted guys at the ruck while only taking a low number of hit ups. Tui on the other hand did minimal in defense (he is always good for one big shot) but trucked it up a hell of a lot and after the game everyone said Tui was the man. I think Douglas doesn't get the credit for the impact he actually makes. Sure he is never going to be the dynamic ball running lock but he will always drop the shoulder and make his impact felt.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Mate in the NRC last year (v Vikings) Douglas had a monster of a game. He tackled hard and belted guys at the ruck while only taking a low number of hit ups. Tui on the other hand did minimal in defense (he is always good for one big shot) but trucked it up a hell of a lot and after the game everyone said Tui was the man. I think Douglas doesn't get the credit for the impact he actually makes. Sure he is never going to be the dynamic ball running lock but he will always drop the shoulder and make his impact felt.

You need guys like that in the second row.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Pretty harsh to single out Douglas from that performance. He was hitting hard in defense and smacking rucks. He dropped it a number of times but so did everyone (it was humid like you couldn't believe). I thought he was much more involved than Tui. Tui and Timu both seem to be getting a free ride based on potential. Watching Timu in club rugby he wasn't that impressive and in the NRC where he lifted I still thought he was overrated and should not have been player of the comp.

Douglas also dropped two balls off the kickoff, as a lock that stuff is your bread and butter. One was deemed to be tackled in the air, which I disagreed with, the Fijian leapt to compete but Douglas dropped it, the other one was a clean drop.

Tui and Douglas play different roles, like Rodda and Tui play different roles, Douglas seems to be the big getting a free ride based on form he displayed 5 years ago, at times in 2017 he was poor and certainly not displaying the consistency you would expect of a player of his experience.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
“In the NRC” is a pretty big disclaimer for tight 5 performance.

Douglas has absolutely struggled to be the rock-mover he was at RWC2015 in his time at the Reds - I’m fairly certain that’s what most of the discontent stems from. Nobody is expecting him to be a ball-running dynamo. He just needs to stop playing like Jane around the breakdown.

When he’s doing that AND making other mistakes like dropping the ball cold, it’s a pretty bad look.
 

Zero_Cool

Arch Winning (36)
My pick for round one side. Although I think Thorn will select BPA at 2 over Ready, Stewart if he starts will be starting in 15 with Lance at 10. Timu is a risk of being left out, perhaps for ASY (Angus Scott-Young) or Wright but I think he's done enough to be given a game or two. Toua was very average last night, looked a little erratic and proved he's not a good kicking option.
My question is who kicks, Stewart last night and at the 10's has been exceptional!

1) Slipper
2) Ready
3) Tupou
4) Tui
5) Hockings (also put him on the Rodda diet!)
6) Timu
7) Korczyk
8) Higginbotham

9) Tuttle
10) Stewart
11) Perese (injury? otherwise CFS)
12) Paia’aua
13) Kerevi
14) Daugunu
15) Lance

Reserves
16) Paenga-Amosa
17) JP Smith
18) Sef Fa’agase
19) Blyth (injury? otherwise Douglass)
20) Angus Scott-Young
22) Sorovi
23) Toua
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Pretty harsh to single out Douglas from that performance. He was hitting hard in defense and smacking rucks. He dropped it a number of times but so did everyone (it was humid like you couldn't believe). I thought he was much more involved than Tui. Tui and Timu both seem to be getting a free ride based on potential. Watching Timu in club rugby he wasn't that impressive and in the NRC where he lifted I still thought he was overrated and should not have been player of the comp.

yeah and early on he was found out in defense (the first time the Reds line was breached) pretty stunningly. That and all of TOCC's comments stood out for me. I actually watched Lukhan closely and he did a lot of work in defense and really impressed me with his work rate.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Most of us would have killed to have an opportunity to live in France and play rugby at the age of 19.


Peter FitzSimons did this in the amateur days, he was a bit older, but he had a wonderful, enriching time. Learnt to speak French, aussi.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Peter Johnson (47)
Douglas also dropped two balls off the kickoff, as a lock that stuff is your bread and butter. One was deemed to be tackled in the air, which I disagreed with, the Fijian leapt to compete but Douglas dropped it, the other one was a clean drop.

Tui and Douglas play different roles, like Rodda and Tui play different roles, Douglas seems to be the big getting a free ride based on form he displayed 5 years ago, at times in 2017 he was poor and certainly not displaying the consistency you would expect of a player of his experience.

Agreed with the kick off receipts (for the record Tui dropped one too). 100% correct it should not have been a penalty. The thing that did annoy me about that is he did the Benn Robinson (complain to the ref rather than just playing on). Agree on 2017 super form too however with the locks currently available to Thorn he is clearly in the top two.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Peter Johnson (47)
yeah and early on he was found out in defense (the first time the Reds line was breached) pretty stunningly. That and all of TOCC's comments stood out for me. I actually watched Lukhan closely and he did a lot of work in defense and really impressed me with his work rate.

Talking about the defense. It seems Thorn has them playing a league structure.
 

emuarse

Chilla Wilson (44)
Douglas also dropped two balls off the kickoff, as a lock that stuff is your bread and butter. One was deemed to be tackled in the air, which I disagreed with, the Fijian leapt to compete but Douglas dropped it, the other one was a clean drop.

Tui and Douglas play different roles, like Rodda and Tui play different roles, Douglas seems to be the big getting a free ride based on form he displayed 5 years ago, at times in 2017 he was poor and certainly not displaying the consistency you would expect of a player of his experience.

Pity we could'nt have kept Rob Simmons & let Douglas go back over the border.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Peter Johnson (47)
JC - can you expand on this? I dont mind the concept in theory, but would want to understand the detail and perhaps how it might translate (or not).

From set plays they seem to run a basic variation of outside shoulder but when in broken play they ran with an inside shoulder pattern with the tight forward in the centre with the loose forwards and backs playing left and right outside that. For example in broken play Lance was playing 2nd in on the right.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
You need guys like that in the second row.
I reckon that's his reputation, but in reality he has been a penalty magnet over the last few years who has been a bit of a liability in Ireland, for the Reds and Wallabies (with some notable exceptions around the world cup). Injuries have hurt
 
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