Reds 2017

[No4918]

Would happily swap Hunt for Gill and Browning. Then the Goromaru saga on top is just crazy. Lost two players there that are just hitting there prime and the Reds could have built a forward pack around for 10 years. Instead we get two duds.

As much as G Smith is a legend if given the choice between him and Gill I would probably pick Gill.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Couldn't agree more Scrubber.

I would go further: every time the Reds/QRU have gone for a 'prestige/media-boosting' player it's been a total waste of $ or a playing failure or both, with the additional decrement that these mad recruiting calls have limited or forestalled the development opportunities of younger players.

It's the so-called minor marquee or similar players that have been the comparative successes: Braid, Samo, Harris come to mind. And these were all Link choices (or was Braid a Mooney call for 2009?).

I believe big money has been paid for Smith and Moore, both of whom are at career end or near, and will keep promising younger players out of immediate development opportunities. As you say, we will soon know the wisdom of these recruitments.

I'm sort of OK with the Smith signing, not only as a player but the aura he brings and the experience he will impart.

Moore is a different story. We had a great Hooker (Chibba) and we let him go to the Rebels (for exactly the same money he was on at the Reds), and a promising understudy named Ready who has gone on to be a competent Super player. This bloke is really at the end of his career and someone at the Reds decided to pay him some "superannuation" for 3 years.

I love seeing young Queenslanders who have done everything right get their opportunity with their first choice franchise (before having to piss off somewhere else and developing well)

 

[RedsHappy]

Would happily swap Hunt for Gill and Browning. Then the Goromaru saga on top is just crazy. Lost two players there that are just hitting there prime and the Reds could have built a forward pack around for 10 years. Instead we get two duds.

As much as G Smith is a legend if given the choice between him and Gill I would probably pick Gill.

It will be interesting to say the least to see how Smith goes in 2017 when he'll be c. 37, especially vs say the back rows of the Kiwi Super teams.

He was pulled back from overseas by Deans in 2013 for the BIL series, it was deemed a 'masterstroke' by many at the time, but it didn't quite work out that way.

The 'elder star player' recruitments rarely pay dividends, Samo the exception.

Gill was yet another tragic casualty of the Graham four-year-long train wreck. A factor also, which is less mentioned or known, is that Cheika kept assuring Gill he'd give him time in the Wallabies, but never did.

 

[Wilson]

Not sure what Smith is on but his recruitment in particular looks as much for mentoring and transition, whether or not that's the right move depends in part on what he cost.

I won't be at all surprised to see him involved in coaching some where in the Queensland setup in the next year or two.

 

[USARugger]

Wasn't the Chibba stuff an almost inevitable result of the contract lengths our hookers were all on at the current time? I'm fairly certain it's been covered here before and that his departure was inevitable outside of a circumstance involving buying out another player's contract (if that was even an option).

As an aside, if Smith didn't have the head knock I can't see any reason he wouldn't have absolutely tortured the Lions in 2013. He was sublime in Super Rugby that year.

 

[RugbyReg]

Chibba was told by Cheika he needed to be a starting hooker to be a Wallaby candidate. He was at that time switching it up with Saia still.

 

[No4918]

Chibba was told by Cheika he needed to be a starting hooker to be a Wallaby candidate. He was at that time switching it up with Saia still.

I see a trend developing.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Chibba was told by Cheika he needed to be a starting hooker to be a Wallaby candidate. He was at that time switching it up with Saia still.

Chib left because RG refused to start him at the beginning of the season, choosing Saia, despite assurances and assurances he would do so. He got the shits with being told one thing and another actually happening.

Money was the same. The senseless mind games played by some coaching staff caused the move.

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^you heard the old saying about the secret of being a successful coach,is to keep the 8 players that are undecided about you,away from the 7 that hate your guts ?

 

[RedsHappy]

Chib left because RG refused to start him at the beginning of the season, choosing Saia, despite assurances and assurances he would do so. He got the shits with being told one thing and another actually happening.

Money was the same. The senseless mind games played by some coaching staff caused the move.

That's precisely what I heard from many credible sources - and Cordingley btw was in on and either actively propagated or supported many of these idiotic decisions and reckless RG recruitment and selection policies.

Cordingley is teflon-ed at Ballymore. He should have been cleaned out with RG. No doubt though he's 'a terrific bloke and good QLD rugby man'.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^you heard the old saying about the secret of being a successful coach,is to keep the 8 players that are undecided about you,away from the 7 that hate your guts ?

That must have been the problem with RG.

All the starters hated his guts

 

[Waterboyrugby]

If we win the comp in 2017 no one will care how much anyone gets paid

This is a 3 win team who just lost their best player (Gill) in return for a couple of oldheads and QC (Quade Cooper). It's highly relevant what players are getting paid as 1) team performance is dismal & 2) poor contract decisions limit what can be done about it.

The Reds are so far off winning Super Rugby it's not even funny. To even state 'if we win' shows a lack of awareness of the current situation. If the Reds win 7-8 games next year you should be happy.

 

[The torpedo]

That's precisely what I heard from many credible sources - and Cordingley btw was in on and either actively propagated or supported many of these idiotic decisions and reckless RG recruitment and selection policies.

Cordingley is teflon-ed at Ballymore. He should have been cleaned out with RG. No doubt though he's 'a terrific bloke and good QLD rugby man'.

I also remember hearing that the reason Gill left was because he was told RG was gone, Gilly signed for 2016, and the QRU re-hired RG. This (presumably) pissed off Gilly, who signed for Toulon, and after RG sacked, apparently tried to backflip on his Toulon deal

 

[The torpedo]

That must have been the problem with RG.

All the starters hated his guts

I did hear rumours that he lost the playing group in 2014 - how he survived was a miracle. I think I read it somewhere on here actually (before I signed up)

 

[Strewthcobber]

This is a 3 win team who just lost their best player (Gill) in return for a couple of oldheads and QC (Quade Cooper). It's highly relevant what players are getting paid as 1) team performance is dismal & 2) poor contract decisions limit what can be done about it.

The Reds are so far off winning Super Rugby it's not even funny. To even state 'if we win' shows a lack of awareness of the current situation. If the Reds win 7-8 games next year you should be happy.

The Reds couldn't offer someone like Gill substantially more money though could they?

Unless the ARU kick in some topup there's a limit to what the Super Rugby clubs can do financially

 

[RedsHappy]

I did hear rumours that he lost the playing group in 2014 - how he survived was a miracle. I think I read it somewhere on here actually (before I signed up)

Mate! In 2014 the senior Reds players went to J Carmichael and to a man told him RG was a total dud as HC and should go forthwith.

The then (and later) leaks to the rugby media re players not wanting RG was just the tip of a toxified iceberg.

 

[The torpedo]

Mate! In 2014 the senior Reds players went to J Carmichael and to a man told him RG was a total dud as HC and should go forthwith.

The then (and later) leaks to the rugby media re players not wanting RG was just the tip of a toxified iceberg.

So I was wrong?

 

[RedsHappy]

So I was wrong?

No, you merely understated if anything the severity of it. It's a total myth -still perpetrated by some here - that 'oh, so sorry, RG was a really good bloke (as we saw him on TV)'.

He was NOT a good bloke for and to the vast majority of Reds players. He was arrogant, authoritarian, non-inclusive, dismissive of criticism and punishing of those who dared to question him, he had pets and favorites, he was secretive and political, managed 'up' wonderfully, a totally different man managing 'down'.

Other than that, he was a fine leader.

 

[The torpedo]

He was NOT a good bloke for and to the vast majority of Reds players. He was arrogant, authoritarian, non-inclusive, dismissive of criticism and punishing of those who dared to question him, he had pets and favorites, he was secretive and political, managed 'up' wonderfully, a totally different man managing 'down'.

Other than that, he was a fine leader.

Ahhhhh - the old Top Gear measure of success.

EDIT: This sounds like you're writing a 4 corners report here RH - you need to do a full on expose of the toxic culture of the reds 2013/2014-2016

 

[Sully]

This is a 3 win team who just lost their best player (Gill) in return for a couple of oldheads and QC (Quade Cooper). It's highly relevant what players are getting paid as 1) team performance is dismal & 2) poor contract decisions limit what can be done about it.

The Reds are so far off winning Super Rugby it's not even funny. To even state 'if we win' shows a lack of awareness of the current situation. If the Reds win 7-8 games next year you should be happy.

Mate. I think you have underestimated the effect of the world wide Coach search.