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Reds 2017

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No4918

John Hipwell (52)
^^^^^^

Rubbish

Of course it was an overstatement.

Now in relation to the video above and some of the skills on offer they certainly look to have gone backwards in some areas. Players are stronger, faster and professional. Yet the ball handling skills on display there and the catch/pass basics appear superior.
 

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I've seen it in many other fields that have been "professionalised" with pseudo training and ridiculous KPIs and massive commensurate salaries when these are met, but performance, actual performance declines and individuals have in the organisations I have been involved in have taken the "professional" view of ticking the boxes and doing what is required and when it all turns to shit they just cannot understand why as they have met their KPIs and done what was required every step of the way.
So paralysis by over analysis?
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Every single game that moron Tim Horan, aided and abetted by the rest of the Foxsports commentators, commentates he begins before the game has started with excuses about how it is "dewy" or humid and there will be sweat on the ball. The NZ teams played in a downpour the other week and dropped less pill.


In my experience (e.g. playing a fair amount of rugby in the tropics in the early months of the year) playing footy in high humidity makes for a much more slippery ball than in the rain. I don't know why, but it's true. Dew no, humidity absolutely yes.

Anyway, as you were....
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
In my experience (e.g. playing a fair amount of rugby in the tropics in the early months of the year) playing footy in high humidity makes for a much more slippery ball than in the rain. I don't know why, but it's true. Dew no, humidity absolutely yes.

Anyway, as you were..


Viscosity of water isn't really high enough to create a lubricated barrier between your hands and the ball, viscosity of sweat is much closer to the sweet spot though. Add in a lot of additional moisture in the air to increase the overall volume of liquid on your hands/the ball and things are gonna get slippery.

Some pro Tennis players keep sawdust in their pockets for the US Open to deal with the same issues involving sweat and their grip on the racket.

Can also back this with my own experiences - playing down South in the Spring/Summer in high humidity is always a more slippery ball than playing up North during Fall/Winter in the rain with low humidity.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Back in the day of leather balls we would liberally apply that fantastic substance called Grippo

And wet leather balls were more slippery than the current ones

Personally I still dropped a heap of balls - something about deer caught in the headlights
 

Ignoto

Peter Sullivan (51)
Dunno why you blokes are putting fancy shit on your hands to catch a ball. I'd just catch the damn thing and any time I dropped it, I blamed the guy who put it too high, too far in front, behind me or put too much heat on the pop aka doing a 'Genia'.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Viscosity of water isn't really high enough to create a lubricated barrier between your hands and the ball, viscosity of sweat is much closer to the sweet spot though. Add in a lot of additional moisture in the air to increase the overall volume of liquid on your hands/the ball and things are gonna get slippery.

Some pro Tennis players keep sawdust in their pockets for the US Open to deal with the same issues involving sweat and their grip on the racket.

Can also back this with my own experiences - playing down South in the Spring/Summer in high humidity is always a more slippery ball than playing up North during Fall/Winter in the rain with low humidity.

Simple solution. Go old school. Stand closer together in attack, pass with less force, put the ball into the breadbasket.
Rugby has a long association with wet weather. Use historical tactics.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Well, the QRU has now itself declared the 2017 Reds as error-filled.

I just tried to buy some tickets for Saturday's game vs the 'Canes and was alarmed to see that the entire upper 2 tiers of Suncorp and the single upper tier of the Western stands are 100% blocked out, not being marketed at all. Obviously not economic on revenue-cost ratio to do so.

Fucking sad state of affairs - how far have we fallen since 2010-12.

And there's large numbers of seats available pretty much every where else for what is one of the season's best/biggest games......theoretically.

The QRU's medium- to long-term viability cannot be sustained with 14k-17k Reds crowds at Suncorp, even more so with this year's ticket price discounting. Not only do those crowd levels yield meagre net gate income after all stadium costs, equally those levels quickly pull down corporate box and game F&B income.

The QRU's 2016/17 solvency was preserved by comparatively large loans from the St George Bank, not by solid EBIT levels and related cash flows.
 

Luvmyrugby

Allen Oxlade (6)
Actually TOCC you actually got me thinking on the broad assertion made that skills were "halved" when comparing current players to those of the past eons.



The only major difference I can think of when comparing respective playing groups (of all Australian franchises) is that the current crop has a huge Pacific Islander influence (whether by migration or heritage). Is there an overall skills problem with this group within a group ?



Nowadays we even have Skills Coaches (I think).



Look forward to your comment



Kiwi teams don't seem to have a skills shortage....
 

Luvmyrugby

Allen Oxlade (6)
All right skills are the same some examples:-

1) With the Old leather ball players could before the change of the rule kick the ball dead from their own 10 metre line, 60+ metres. Now with heaps of time on their hands we rarely see an Australian back clear the halfway line a distance of 28M. That's about half I reckon.

2) Name me two centres in both 12 and 13 who can pass the ball from both hands accurately while moving at more than walking pace AND show me in game proof of it. I can post lots of proof that they can't, even while static passing to a static receiver.

3) Not picking on Quade Cooper but his is the most current example - why after 6 years as a professional player is his defence still an issue with base technique? To assuage the QC (Quade Cooper) defence team I would point to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who showed last year he has not developed an effective pass (though I can remember him executing once in all his tests (in the last RWC).





Every single game that moron Tim Horan, aided and abetted by the rest of the Foxsports commentators, commentates he begins before the game has started with excuses about how it is "dewy" or humid and there will be sweat on the ball. The NZ teams played in a downpour the other week and dropped less pill.



My rose coloured glasses do make my memories of games past and achievements greater, but when I watch basic techniques like holding the ball to pass, positioning to execute a kick the older guys at the top of the game were just much better than the current guys.



Why is this so, I have postulated that they just do not spend enough time in junior ranks and then through young adulthood building these skills in depth. They don't play enough games at a lower level and so when that pressure comes on the technique just falls apart.



How many modern "professionals" take the approach of Jonny Wilkinson with his place kicking, how many hone their hand eye co-ordination like Bradman with the stump and ball against the water tank?



I've seen it in many other fields that have been "professionalised" with pseudo training and ridiculous KPIs and massive commensurate salaries when these are met, but performance, actual performance declines and individuals have in the organisations I have been involved in have taken the "professional" view of ticking the boxes and doing what is required and when it all turns to shit they just cannot understand why as they have met their KPIs and done what was required every step of the way.



YOUR LAST THREE PARAGRAPHS ARE GOLD!. Its not the players fault.
The modern player....Taken straight from school into some "pathway" program, then a few games of 20s and then a Super contract. Never had to train in the rain let alone play in the mud. Never had a 30 yr old ex first grader belt them late and then buy them a beer in the clubhouse later. Most importantly never had to dig deep inside and see what they're made of, just listen to all the sycophants telling them they're the next big thing. Never had to find a way to win, to devise their own Plan B; and when things fall apart just keep your head down and hope next week's better.
Many are just minding the spot for the next "big thing", before being either let go or deciding to go elsewhere looking for "greatness"( think Jones, Fakosilea, Gale, Sorovi, Greene, Mason, et al.) and others are thrust in the deep end and allowed to sink think Placid (he's sunk), Mcintyre (he's sinking), Jack Tuttle (apparently drowned) etc.
"Good enough is old enough" only works with freaks like Horan and Sterlo. I wonder how they would have turned out if they'd come through today?

PS. just saw Hamish Stewart named at #22 for the Reds this weekend vs Hurricanes. The Prosecution rests Your Honour!
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Luvmyrugby

When have Kiwis ever been considered Pacific Islanders ?

I know I have never thought that !

To take it one further step, just for you, I suppose, geographically Australia AND NZ and ALL the players contained within those 2 great nations, whether the heritage is English, Aboriginal, Scottish, German, Maori blah blah are all Pacific Islanders - happy now
 
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