Reds 2017

[RedsHappy]

Link alwys said that QC (Quade Cooper) was the best executor of a gamepan that he had ever seen

Agreed, he did say that. But requiring, and presupposing, an excellent game plan to begin with of course.

 

[dru]

gel - isn't this a bit of a myth though, with the current team we have in 2017?

Higgers, Moore, Smith, Cooper, Douglas, Simmons..etc..these guys have all been in winning teams over time that knew how to close out a game when it was realistically there for that. FFS Moore is Wallaby Captain.

Out of interest, how many of those guys were actually on the field in the last 10? I know Moore wasnt.

Bit hard to lead the close out with your arse picking up splinters on the pine.

 

[RedsHappy]

Out of interest, how many of those guys were actually on the field in the last 10? I know Moore wasnt.

Bit hard to lead the close out with your arse picking up splinters on the pine.

Very valid point dru but may at the same time highlight a major issue: the men we have purchased to do just that - bring experience and mature perspectives as to how to win in the end game and close out under pressure - are not for various reasons able to be there in the final 10-15 mins to deliver the goods.

 

[The torpedo]

gel - isn't this a bit of a myth though, with the current team we have in 2017?

Higgers, Moore, Smith, Cooper, Douglas, Simmons..etc..these guys have all been in winning teams over time that knew how to close out a game when it was realistically there for that. FFS Moore is Wallaby Captain.

For clarity, we'll go from 2014:

Higgers - Wen to rebels in 2014 (last 2014, 10th 2015) then went to NEC where they finished 10th (from 16 teams)

Moore - yeah I'll give you that (Although lets be honest, the wallabies havent' exactly had a winning culture over the past few years)

Smith - Lyon got relegated, moved to Wasps and Sungoliath - i'll give you that

Cooper - ws part of the reds in 2014 and 2015 (losing culture if i'd ever seen it) and moved to Toulon for 1 year where they were runners up, and got thrown under the bus by Mourad

Douglas - was part of the tahs from 2010-2014 mved to leinter where they missed the pro 12 finals for the first time in forver, then came to the reds for 2016

Simmons - see cooper, but was prt of the losing culture for 2016

So out of those players you mentioned, 3 players have sepnt a majority of time in a winning culture since 2014. out of a squad of 37. Unless they have a Michael Schumacher level of influence with the hiring of staff, 3 players aren't gonna turn around your culture ASAP

 

[wamberal]

I do not think just failing to beat the Crusaders is an indicator of anything except a pretty good effort.


There is always a loser in any contest. Are all losers failures? That would be absurd. It depends on the contest.

 

[RedsHappy]

@ the torpedo

You are looking at those noted players' respective histories differently than I am. I did not in any sense say they had no losing years, I did say they had meaningful experience of winning years and teams at elite levels and I stand by that.

I did not at all say 'I wanted Reds' coaches heads on a sliver platter' after 3 games.

In 2016 after 'the major global search for a new Reds HC' and the choice was for Stiles a QRU favourite from home that had achieved little bar a good Reds' scrum, I did say right then that I had serious concerns re this call and, I echoed all that again when inexperienced and local support coaches were appointed under him for the Reds. I consider this whole process and coaching group medium- to high-risk (especially given that the QRU desperately needed/needs the Reds to quickly get back to their glory days or something like it or they'll very likely go broke again), and I stand by that too.

I will be delighted I assure you to be proved wrong.

 

[The torpedo]

@ the torpedo

You are looking at those noted players' respective histories differently than I am. I did not in any sense say they had no losing years, I did say they had meaningful experience of winning years and teams at elite levels and I stand by that.

What i meant was that of the 3 that have spent a majority of a time in a losing culture have for the lack of a better term, 'forgotten what its like to be part of a winning culture'. they also hevent teasted the winning culture (particularly simmons) since 2013, and Douglas since 2014. It also takes some time to chage a culture(its no 1 offseason job)

 

[The torpedo]

Squad for SA/ARG tour:

Props
Kirwan Sanday (uncapped) - Easts
James Slipper (C) – Bond University
Sam Talakai - Brothers
Taniela Tupou - Brothers
Markus Vanzati - Souths

Hookers
Stephen Moore – University of Queensland
Andrew Ready - Easts

Locks
Kane Douglas - Norths
Izack Rodda - Easts
Rob Simmons - Sunnybank
Lukhan Tui - Souths

Loose forwards
Scott Higginbotham - Wests
Leroy Houston - Wests
Adam Korczyk – University of Queensland
George Smith
Hendrik Tui - Norths

Scrumhalves
Nick Frisby - GPS
James Tuttle - GPS

Flyhalves
Quade Cooper - Souths
Jake McIntyre - Sunnybank

Centres
Samu Kerevi - Souths
Duncan Paia’aua - Norths
Henry Taefu - Sunnybank

Outside backs
Karmichael Hunt - Norths
Chris Kuridrani - GPS
Eto Nabuli - GPS
Izaia Perese - Easts

 

[RedsHappy]

So, we want Reds/QRU Positives.....this is a Positive

 

[TOCC]

Bit worried about depth at loose head prop, I remain unconvinced by Vanzati and Slipper throws his body around and barely scrapes through 80min..

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

What i meant was that of the 3 that have spent a majority of a time in a losing culture have for the lack of a better term, 'forgotten what its like to be part of a winning culture'. they also hevent teasted the winning culture (particularly simmons) since 2013, and Douglas since 2014. It also takes some time to chage a culture(its no 1 offseason job)

I gave you a C+ for your first-up penalty phase post but you're making way too much sense & using up way too many characters to be "in character" in terms of the signature/ avatar bet. Dumb it down pronto or I shall have no option but to report you to the Banmeister General.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I gave you a C+ for your first-up penalty phase post but you're making way too much sense & using up way too many characters to be "in character" in terms of the signature/ avatar bet. Dumb it down pronto or I shall have no option but to report you to the Banmeister General.

I don't see a single mention of the ref in his last 3 posts. Barely an irately atrophied apostrophe to be found. Not even an inexplicably capitalized noun biffed in mid-sentence.

 

[cyclopath]

I don't see a single mention of the ref in his last 3 posts. Barely an irately atrophied apostrophe to be found. Not even an inexplicably capitalized noun biffed in mid-sentence.

 

[The torpedo]

WO, Dismal, Cyclo please refer to the reds vs crusaders match thread for an attempt at a shiggins-style post

 

[Dismal Pillock]

going to be a hard road to hoe Torpedo. A whole week with an absurd millstone dragging you down every step of the way towards making every post a winner.

haha, that's me 3rd from the right, at the back, moustachioed, looking quizzically over at the boom operator. "Cut!, Cut!"

*cyclo, moronically, staring right at the bloody camera. "Cut!, Cut!"

 

[Teh Other Dave]

I do not think just failing to beat the Crusaders is an indicator of anything except a pretty good effort.


There is always a loser in any contest. Are all losers failures? That would be absurd. It depends on the contest.

True, but the Reds again faded in the second half. While their rugby is a definite improvement on the last couple of seasons, their inability to play 80 mins +injury time is concerning.

 

[upthereds#!]

unfortunately, as Kafe pointed out, Kerevi struggles with the tactical side of defence at 13, eg - reading the game, which IMO so does Nabuli. Yes he came in for big hits but you do that if you're overlapped and must commit to hitting SOMEONE, you don't leave a dangerous winger like Digby unmarked.

Poor combination between those 2.

 

[formerflanker]

True, but the Reds again faded in the second half. While their rugby is a definite improvement on the last couple of seasons, their inability to play 80 mins +injury time is concerning.

The Crusaders would have many reasons to explain a loss especially with the injuries they sustained. They didn't look for those excuses, they focused on winning. Hope the Reds can use the same mentality in all their remaining games.

 

[gel]

gel - isn't this a bit of a myth though, with the current team we have in 2017?

Higgers, Moore, Smith, Cooper, Douglas, Simmons..etc..these guys have all been in winning teams over time that knew how to close out a game when it was realistically there for that. FFS Moore is Wallaby Captain.

Just for example and if the loss is looked at a different way, wasn't Kerevi's known deficiencies in passing L -> R just as responsible for clearly bombed opportunities that actively contributed to the loss? I mean core skills areas under pressure that must be improved if the Reds stand any chance of a Finals berth this year.

Recall too that RG left the team 12 months ago. In that idiotic dual-HC model, Stiles was still there front and centre. The RG influence since March 2016 has had plenty of time to be purged and erased surely, virtually an entire season?

And one would have thought that the QRU knew what it was doing, or more importantly the risks it was taking, when going for both an unproven HC and an 'all green' coaching support staff?

i certainly believe that the guys that have been parachuted in will have an effect (and are at the moment), but I also am a big believer in the organisation as a whole. There's a lot of players out there that don't have a winning culture. The coaches don't either. The back room probably is still pretty sour as well.

That's a lot of cultural inertia to overcome.

I don't believe cultural inertia is a myth. It's in all organisations and it works in both directions. Takes incredibly gifted individuals or extraordinary circumstances to instantly change the culture of a place and I don't see either at the Reds at the moment.

That doesn't mean that the Reds aren't reversing their fortunes though. I think they are, but it is a small sample set I have as evidence.

Edit - I was also critical of the coaching appointment at the time and at this stage agree that it is high risk.

 

[TOCC]

Stiles has said Moore will come off the bench in a game or two on their South African tour, should help the scrum in the last 20 and help with a bit of experience during those late fadeouts, but good to see Ready get some more game time.