Reds 2017

[dru]

I'm concerned at the backup for QC (Quade Cooper) this season.

Hopefully he stays injury free - although I am more concerned with how he adapts his tackling style to the new high tackle laws..

Yes its hard to get excited about McIntyre on the bench. It's pretty much the only confusing squad decission for this season.

In terms of tackling laws, there are 15 blokes on the paddock to worry about. Quade does tend to go high but I'm not sure he's the key on this issue. I'd start with the locks and spread the training revised technique from there.

 

[liquor box]

With less box kicking!


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Surely box kicking is a coaching thing?

"stop doing it or you are dropped" should suffice for a young player.

I get annoyed at it but have come to the conclusion that it must be desired by the coaches or it would not occur so much.

 

[Happy to Chat]

I maintain that you should build an attack and not kick away possession of the ball. In the rare circumstance that you are in your 22 and the opposition defense is lying shallow, go with a box kick. To me box kicking says we have no confidence in our backline.


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[Strewthcobber]

I maintain that you should build an attack and not kick away possession of the ball. In the rare circumstance that you are in your 22 and the opposition defense is lying shallow, go with a box kick. To me box kicking says we have no confidence in our backline.

I wonder if rugby analytics are far advanced enough to determine if teams are more likely to score next based on possession, or territory.

Box kicks are widespread enough that it seems at least some coaches belive that they would rather the opposition had the ball in their own half than be on attack inside your own 50.

 

[TSR]

I am surprised by the level of derision box kicking gets on here. People don't seem to have anywhere near the same level of issue with Aaron Smith's box kicking.

Box kicking in itself is fine if it is executed well, with a good chase and is done is part of a broader strategy which puts the opposition under pressure.

It is a matter of fact that the 2011 Reds side kicked prolifically - as did the 2012-13 Chiefs. Not box kicks so much I know, but the principle was consistent. A good kicking game, WELL EXECUTED, is vital for success at high level rugby. And box kicking is very effective when done well.

I don't want to see Bulls style incessant kicking - but nor do I want us to ditch box kicking. We just need to do it a hell of a lot better.

 

[dru]

And the Bulls aren't really doing that anymore under Marais.

Bad box kicks are when it's a "get out of jail" option not communicated to others, poorly implemented and with no chase. Mostly for me, not when the back line is not performing but when the 9 looses patience with the pack.

Frisby should box exactly as often and the game plan has premeditated it. Personally I'd prefer that the game plan calls for our high risk kicks to come from Quade looking for an opportunity probably out wide. Let's master the kick pass.

[But also let's master the art of possession so we can afford these tactics.]

 

[TSR]

Fair enough Dru. I'm a fan of the kick pass as well. But the cross field kick is going to be useless without a winger making the effort to get in position to make it effective.

I'm not saying either Frisby or Genia were doing perfect box kicks, but the effort of our kick chase in the last 3 years has been complete tripe.

 

[RugbyReg]

Two things. When the Reds won in 2011 I think the stats showed that they kicked more than anyone else in the Comp.

When the Reds beat the Highlanders last year at Suncorp (thanks to a dominant first half) it was largely because of Frisby' box kicking.

It's about execution in the end.


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[Strewthcobber]

Two things. When the Reds won in 2011 I think the stats showed that they kicked more than anyone else in the Comp.

When the Reds beat the Highlanders last year at Suncorp (thanks to a dominant first half) it was largely because of Frisby' box kicking.

It's about execution in the end.


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Yep Reg, IIRC the only stat that is strongly correlated with success in rugby union at pro level is that the team that kicks the most, usually scores more points

 

[Happy to Chat]

I somewhat agree with the kicking but it has to be planned and followed up with a challenge for the ball, too many have gone too far and resulted in opposition attack, poor defense and a try against us or loss of ground. If coordinated and executed properly it can work. Enough said I'm just not a huge fan of it. Love the kick pass out wide with a fast wing though. Barrett has that one nailed, hopefully QC (Quade Cooper) can get it working for us too.


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[TOCC]

I maintain that you should build an attack and not kick away possession of the ball. In the rare circumstance that you are in your 22 and the opposition defense is lying shallow, go with a box kick. To me box kicking says we have no confidence in our backline.


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Whether you kick or not should be determined by the opposition defensive alignment, if kicking weren't an option then defending teams would have their wings rushing up and bring their fullback into the defensive line.

Perfect example was England during the July series, all series their outside backs rushed up, there was space behind the England backline all series yet Foley rarely ever kicked.. If Foley had of kicked over the top a few times he may have found space or he may not have, but more importantly he would have forced England to drop a wing or two back to cover the kick and opened up space in their defensive line.

Kicks don't always have to find touch, some times they can be used to keep the defensive line honest.




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[TSR]

There is an excellent Dave Rennie clip on You tube, I believe from about 2013, when he talks about the identification of space, and specifically about the use of intelligent kicking to exploit it. It's well worth a watch on the whole subject of using kicking in your game plan.

 

[The sage]

I maintain that you should build an attack and not kick away possession of the ball. In the rare circumstance that you are in your 22 and the opposition defense is lying shallow, go with a box kick. To me box kicking says we have no confidence in our backline.


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Worked wonderfully for the English; actually thought it was THE game changer. Box kicking (though not a big fan of it) is great as long as it is executed well and the chases are putting pressure on the recipient.

10 man rugby (or 9 man with box kicking) has won the English and the kiwis a lot of test matches. So it has a purpose in the game.


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[Getwithme]

Who do we have penciled in as our 12 for this year? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a few options and no real standout?

 

[Sully]

Who do we have penciled in as our 12 for this year? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a few options and no real standout?

Young fellow by the name of Samu Kerevi

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[dru]

Young fellow by the name of Samu Kerevi

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Karevi can have 13. Paiaua to 12. Like to see it given a chance anyway.

 

[Getwithme]

So Henry Taefu out of the question?

 

[dru]

So Henry Taefu out of the question?

No. There are options. I just want to see Duncan take his shot.

 

[TOCC]

Who do we have penciled in as our 12 for this year? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a few options and no real standout?

Paia'aua, his form during the NRC at 12 can't be looked over.

I don't necessarily agree that Kerevi should be at 12 as there aren't any 13's who really jump out. Magnay is still learning, Perese will be better suited to playing wing at least in his debut season, CFS is injured and lazy.

Henry Taefu at 12 actually suits Quade's style of play, but he has missed a large amount of rugby which has dropped him down the pecking order.

 

[wamberal]

It's about execution in the end.


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And picking the right moment. Any team that does not kick cannot win, unless they are absolutely exceptional.