Reds 2016

[Braveheart81]

Harsh. Greene has had scant minutes, got dropped, got bought back against close to the toughest opposition and got put on the field with the key strike centre not playing, a rookie 13, lost his defensive lynch pin, had his fullback replaced by a half back and played behind a forward pack getting toweled up.

Based on your standards Ned Hanigan can start looking for a new career based on tonight.

Alternatively maybe we should give both players a few more opportunities to prove themselves.

It was more just the fact that neither seem to be a definitively better option than the other and I would probably be going down a similar path of picking and sticking.

I don't think there are any great shortcuts in developing either of them. They both need time. They've taken the punt on continuing with McIntyre who has a headstart in terms of experience. They may have made the wrong choice but alternating them and sharing the game time much more could just delay both of them.

Unfortunately whilst the rest of the backline isn't offering much help, I think it's going to be a very slow process.

 

[Scrubber2050]

It was more just the fact that neither seem to be a definitively better option than the other and I would probably be going down a similar path of picking and sticking.

I don't think there are any great shortcuts in developing either of them. They both need time. They've taken the punt on continuing with McIntyre who has a headstart in terms of experience. They may have made the wrong choice but alternating them and sharing the game time much more could just delay both of them.

Unfortunately whilst the rest of the backline isn't offering much help, I think it's going to be a very slow process.

The Reds have tried to develop McIntyre and given him a truckload of starts. Trouble is that he just isn't improving. I don't expect him (and I reckon no-one does) to be a gun 10 immediately but I do expect improvement.

Greene has had fuckall opportunity. He has boils and splinters on his arse from riding the pine. Give him a shot for a few games (starting) and then decide. If we don't do that the kid will walk away from the Reds altogether.

 

[No4918]

Greene has had fuckall opportunity. He has boils and splinters on his arse from riding the pine. Give him a shot for a few games (starting) and then decide. If we don't do that the kid will walk away from the Reds altogether.

If he can get a gig somewhere else. I don't see McIntyre or Greene displacing a 10 at any Aus franchise and they would be lucky to make the bench at a few.

 

[RugbyReg]

He could start at 10 for the Brumbies with Lealiifano back at 12.


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[No4918]

Let me rephrase - injuries aside, they are not starting at any other franchise. Perhaps the Force could better use Lance elsewhere with another 10 option but he looked quite promising before his injury.

 

[bloodred]

It's an interesting issue, but the bottom line is that neither are ready. I think McIntyre is the better option presently, but we do need some experience. Reg is being kind but you cannot afford the mistakes Greene made in his short time on the field. In time both players can be an option but they need to be given time and that means riding the pine

 

[Scoey]

It's an interesting issue, but the bottom line is that neither are ready. I think McIntyre is the better option presently, but we do need some experience. Reg is being kind but you cannot afford the mistakes Greene made in his short time on the field. In time both players can be an option but they need to be given time and that means riding the pine

Reg isn't be 'kind' at all. He's being reasonable.

You have to assess each player in their own context. In every occasion Greene has been given minutes, he's been brought on at a time when we're chasing a game or it's already lost. He's been on the bench all season so he's itching to get stuck in and lastly he's just a kid so of course he's going to be prone to overplaying his hand, particularly when you consider the above.

You talk about not being able to make the mistakes that Greene did in his short time on the field but what about McIntyre's mistakes? He is able to prepare, build into a match and play his own game and is afforded much more time to do it, yet he still makes the same sorts of mistakes (ie missing kicks for touch etc.) not to mention his conversion attempt from dead in front being charged down!

 

[Simon.]

I agree with the line of thought that Greene deserves a chance to start at 10 for a few games, at least three or four. We have nothing much to lose, and if nothing else, it will put a stop to the constant debating over it. He'll either be significantly better than McIntyre, significantly worse, or about the same. Regardless of which it is, it answers the question.

Swapping him for McIntyre also puts McIntyre on the bench which allows another point of comparison, because you can compare Greene's bench performances with his. McIntyre was pretty good off the bench in the last few games of last year, and his cramping and general fitness won't be an issue.

I'd stick with Jake for the Sunwolves game as it's one we don't need to take the risk on, we can and should win with our current setup. But otherwise, starting with this week, if I had a Mourad-like control of the Reds, I'd be starting Greene.

 

[TOCC]

I actually think Jakes overall form has been on an upwards trajectory over the course of the season and disagree with those who say he hasn't improved at all. He played badly in the Crusaders game but so did everybody..

Would Greene go any better? Perhaps, but it's not a given or certainty that he would, In his limited time off the bench I'm yet to see any conclusive evidence that he would.


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[Scrubber2050]

It is the ONE position on a rugby field that is paramount.

I think a team can compensate for nearly every other position with another player.

Franchises all need a good 10, first and foremost. They should be looking looking and constantly looking.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I actually think Jakes overall form has been on an upwards trajectory over the course of the season and disagree with those who say he hasn't improved at all. He played badly in the Crusaders game but so did everybody..

Would Greene go any better? Perhaps, but it's not a given or certainty that he would, In his limited time off the bench I'm yet to see any conclusive evidence that he would.


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Maybe, but if its broke then at least TRY and fix it.

 

[hammertimethere]

I suspect if the Reds are savvy, the Churchie XV of 2014 may end up like the Southport XV of the mid-late 2000's where fully 8-10 of the players graduated to the professional ranks (mostly at the Reds I.e Slipper, Simmons, Morahan, Lance etc.)

If Kalyn Ponga is at all half interested, Gilmore and Herbert should be on the phone to his manager.

It's certainly my observation that most 20-21 yr olds don't make awesome Super Rugby players (usually takes until 23-25 on average) though I would say that if there is a player who is more likely than not to be good at that age, Ponga is him.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I suspect if the Reds are savvy, the Churchie XV of 2014 may end up like the Southport XV of the mid-late 2000's where fully 8-10 of the players graduated to the professional ranks (mostly at the Reds I.e Slipper, Simmons, Morahan, Lance etc.)

If Kalyn Ponga is at all half interested, Gilmore and Herbert should be on the phone to his manager.

It's certainly my observation that most 20-21 yr olds don't make awesome Super Rugby players (usually takes until 23-25 on average) though I would say that if there is a player who is more likely than not to be good at that age, Ponga is him.

Ponga is a no-brainer if interested.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Whats Beau Robinson up to now? With Gilly gone i wouldnt mind grabbing him back. He always gave everything and hes pretty well-rounded. Maybe a level below gill but still a bloody good player.

 

[p.Tah]

Ponga is a no-brainer if interested.

Has anyone seen Ponga play (League) since he left Churchie?
im interested in how he has gone.

 

[TOCC]

He missed much of 2015 with a brain Infection but has been starring for the Cowboys U20's in 2016. Has had a few bad games but overall he is definitely a class above the rest in his age group.


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[p.Tah]

He missed much of 2015 with a brain Infection but has been starring for the Cowboys U20's in 2016. Has had a few bad games but overall he is definitely a class above the rest in his age group.

ok thanks.
Reading about him, he chose the Cowboys, but has now knocked back their offer, now he hasn't chosen whether he would represent Australia or NZ in League.
If the article is to believed, Something strange is going on in the background.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...t/news-story/8600bfcd940806bac123879551ad11e2

 

[dru]

It is the ONE position on a rugby field that is paramount.

I think a team can compensate for nearly every other position with another player.

Franchises all need a good 10, first and foremost. They should be looking looking and constantly looking.

Agreed. The other "one" positions are 2 and 7. And maybe 9.

 

[the sabanator]

Has anyone seen Ponga play (League) since he left Churchie?
im interested in how he has gone.

He played a trial against the Broncos in Bundaberg at the start of the year. The pitch was an absolute slop (Heavy 10 in racing terms), the Broncos were starting pretty close to their best XIII and the Cowboys didn't have a single regular player out there. The Broncs ended up winning by about 30.

Ponga was the best player on the field even with all that. He killed it every time he got the ball.

 

[TSR]

I actually think Jakes overall form has been on an upwards trajectory over the course of the season and disagree with those who say he hasn't improved at all. He played badly in the Crusaders game but so did everybody..

Would Greene go any better? Perhaps, but it's not a given or certainty that he would, In his limited time off the bench I'm yet to see any conclusive evidence that he would.


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I honestly don't know where I stand anymore TOCC. I understand the rational for sticking with McIntyre and I have agreed so far, but I confess I am one struggling to see the improvement. If anything i feel that others around him have improved, but he is hampering any real progress of the unit. To me, he is still standing too deep too often and, almost always, running laterally and cramping the attack. If he can't, or won't, show improvement, at some point you have to take a different direction.

I think there is a genuine case now for Greene to be given a go.

But, here is the rub for me - where is the coaching responsibility here? Surely a HC worth his salt can see the issue, and either help McIntyre fix it or else if he can't or won't give another option a go.

I dunno - maybe the problem is me. I'm neither a back nor a high level rugby player. I'm quite accepting of the fact that I may have no idea what I'm talking about.

But every time I watch McIntyre cramp up his outside players I wonder what the hell the coaching staff are trying to achieve. It's got me stuffed.