Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
What about Rowan Perry? He hasn't had opportunities in ACT
Reds 2016
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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What about Rowan Perry? He hasn't had opportunities in ACT
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Perry's now playing with Easts in Shute Shield and I think has some sort of training contract with the Tahs.
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
True, but there'd be very few players who'd turn down a full or EPS contract in another location, in favour of a training deal where they are.
Someone like Robertson who's halfway through a medical degree. Blokes settled with young families. Blokes with say, significant business or other professional interests where they're located. Blokes who've already moved a significant distance (say on a continental level).
Otherwise I don't see someone aged 19-25 turning down an interstate deal.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
I expect you're right H35 and I hope the Brumbies put in an urgent call for him to return for 2017 (maybe even the remainder of this season).
Intruder
Dave Cowper (27)
Speaking of returns it looks as though Saia Fainga'a will head back to the capital next season with Stephen Moore already making the move back home.
T
TOCC
Guest
He has been a good servant to QLD rugby but not a big loss, with Moore, Ready and U20's players like Mafi, the Reds hooker depth is looking strong for the next few years.
Happy to Chat
Nev Cottrell (35)
Yeah we might see a little less box kicking! Which would be good.
neilc
Bob Loudon (25)
Surely the box kicking is a coached tactic? Otherwise why wouldn't the coaches send a message onto the field to stop doing it? I don't like it either but I don't understand how it could keep being used so much if it wasn't a directive.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
A good box kick with players chasing is a weapon.
The secret is kicking the right distance and height to allow the chasers to put the receiver under huge pressure and /or contest for the ball.
Not many do it consistently well.
The secret is kicking the right distance and height to allow the chasers to put the receiver under huge pressure and /or contest for the ball.
Not many do it consistently well.
it's clearly a coaching tactic.
Look at that Highlanders game. In the first half at least it was a tactic used whenever we had ball between the 22m and 40m line. The breakdown was pretty rigid as:
- In our 22m = a couple of hit ups and then the ball cleared out on the full to prevent the Highlanders backs from countering.
- Between 22m and 40m = Frisby pretty much always boxed. The aim clearly was to make these contestable with a good chase (which pretty much always happened). My assumption is that we weren't keen on relying on McIntrye's nor Hunt's clearance game and didn't want to give those dangerous Highlanders backs a lot of room to run.
- 40m onwards, we tended to run it more.
Happy to Chat
Nev Cottrell (35)
I can't see how endlessly kicking away possession and then having to defend without gaining any ground could be beneficial to any team. It would be a good tactic once or twice a game and you actually had someone under the ball to challenge!!!!
He has been been a good player for us and a good community rugby man. We shouldn't dismiss his contribution lightly
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Simon.
Bob Loudon (25)
The fact the box kicking is as bad as ever makes me think it's an O'Connor tactic rather than a Graham tactic. As Happy to Chat pointed out, all it usually achieves in the Reds' half is gifting possession back to the opposition for maybe 10m of gain.
I understand that they are struggling to get over the gain line, which means after a few phases against a set defence, a kick of some sort is probably going to be needed, but surely a deep kick to the sideline is a better go-to option. That way the Reds have a chance to pressure the lineout and win kickable penalties at the breakdown, or cause a knock-on and a chance to pressure the scrum, all in opposition territory. The strengths and weaknesses of the current Reds team are such that they should be playing a territory game IMO.
A box kick doesn't help them there. If they lose it (which is most likely) they lose possession around halfway, and their own sometimes-shaky defence is now under pressure within their own half, particularly against a team with a strong backline.
On the rare occasions they win a box kick, even that doesn't really help them because they've retained possession but they're still going to be on their own side of halfway, and how often do we see this Reds team making 50-plus metres in unstructured phase play? Half a dozen phases of going nowhere and they'll be kicking again.
I understand that they are struggling to get over the gain line, which means after a few phases against a set defence, a kick of some sort is probably going to be needed, but surely a deep kick to the sideline is a better go-to option. That way the Reds have a chance to pressure the lineout and win kickable penalties at the breakdown, or cause a knock-on and a chance to pressure the scrum, all in opposition territory. The strengths and weaknesses of the current Reds team are such that they should be playing a territory game IMO.
A box kick doesn't help them there. If they lose it (which is most likely) they lose possession around halfway, and their own sometimes-shaky defence is now under pressure within their own half, particularly against a team with a strong backline.
On the rare occasions they win a box kick, even that doesn't really help them because they've retained possession but they're still going to be on their own side of halfway, and how often do we see this Reds team making 50-plus metres in unstructured phase play? Half a dozen phases of going nowhere and they'll be kicking again.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
An excellent dissertation on the futility of box kicking - at least as it is done in this country. We can all readily see the advantage it gives a side like the Highlanders who do it precisely and with the best chasers in Super Rugby.
T
TOCC
Guest
Nah not dismissing his off-field contribution, but there's no denying that his on-field contribution is below that of Stephen Moore and he has also been overtaken by Ready in 2016 IMO. That would leave him as the 3rd in line hooker in 2017.
Simon.
Bob Loudon (25)
Yeah it was encouragingly effective in the first half but failed badly in the second half and nearly cost the Reds the game. Not just box kicking but kicking away possession in general.
I think the lesson from the Reds/Highlanders game (and the employment of the box kick by the Highlanders as mentioned by Brumby Runner) is that IF you decide to persist with box kicking, you need to devote all efforts to making the box kicks contestable. If you can't do that, stop box kicking until you can.
I still think the Reds are the wrong team to be box kicking though. Their strengths are the set piece and recently they've scored some good tries from set plays in the first phase off a set piece. They struggle in unstructured play in both attack and defence.
The Highlanders and to greater or lesser degree the other Kiwi teams excel at scoring tries from unstructured play, so a box kick is a good tactic for them as it de-structures the game. Even if the Reds and Highlanders were equally competitive at chasing their box kicks (which they aren't) you'd still say that when they win a box kick, the Highlanders are in a better place to exploit that win than the Reds are.
I think the lesson from the Reds/Highlanders game (and the employment of the box kick by the Highlanders as mentioned by Brumby Runner) is that IF you decide to persist with box kicking, you need to devote all efforts to making the box kicks contestable. If you can't do that, stop box kicking until you can.
I still think the Reds are the wrong team to be box kicking though. Their strengths are the set piece and recently they've scored some good tries from set plays in the first phase off a set piece. They struggle in unstructured play in both attack and defence.
The Highlanders and to greater or lesser degree the other Kiwi teams excel at scoring tries from unstructured play, so a box kick is a good tactic for them as it de-structures the game. Even if the Reds and Highlanders were equally competitive at chasing their box kicks (which they aren't) you'd still say that when they win a box kick, the Highlanders are in a better place to exploit that win than the Reds are.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
When you have a scrum as strong as ours then a box kick (done well) can be a weapon. As others have said, outside the 22 but still in our own half, the box kick is a solid option (again; if done well).
The goal is to contest the ball heavily and win possession or make it messy, with a knock on from them or both of us so there's a scrum inside their half; preferably our feed but if not, put a big shove on and try and win possession/penalty or give them messy ball at the back.
As Reg has said, 1st half against the Clan was a prime example of how it is supposed to work.
The goal is to contest the ball heavily and win possession or make it messy, with a knock on from them or both of us so there's a scrum inside their half; preferably our feed but if not, put a big shove on and try and win possession/penalty or give them messy ball at the back.
As Reg has said, 1st half against the Clan was a prime example of how it is supposed to work.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Ready is the starting hooker at the Reds at least for 2016. He is an outsider to get a call-up to the Wallabies wider squad.
No doubt he will be a bit miffed next year with the arrival of one, Mr Moore, and takes a bench spot for 60 -70 minutes each week.
Moore has been great and hopefully he can continue for this year and the next (at the reds). We shall see !!!
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