Reds 2015

[Braveheart81]

Nadolo has improved out of sight since going to the Crusaders, and show just how poor Australian Coaching is IMO. Those years at the Tahs where he didn't get a start and couldn't catch, pass or kick. Now he is executing better than many Wallabies.

Years at the Tahs? He was a Junior Waratah for one season.

He improved a massive amount from his four years playing in the UK, France and Japan before joining the Crusaders.

There's no doubt he's an excellent player right now but you're making it sound like he went from being a dud at the Tahs to a roaring success at the Crusaders overnight.

He certainly wouldn't be the first large human to have the coordination of a baby giraffe when he's 18-20 before becoming quite skillful in his mid to late 20s.

 

[RugbyReg]

so i checked to see if i was going insane or not, these are turner's stats according to foxsports. TC is tackles completed, TM is tackles missed. So his stats this season are 31 tackles made, 23 missed. pretty symptomatic and typical of the entire reds team this season to be honest, but he has missed a sh**load for whatever reason which was the point i was trying to make. and I'm more annoyed at his lack of attacking impact more so than defensive efforts, coz we have scored the fewest tries and points in the comp this year, hence my suggestion to put in JOC (James O'Connor) or taulagi to try to improve that, as our defence can't get any worse.

31 and 16 according to SANZAR

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/teams/?competition=205&season=2015&team=250

 

[Gnostic]

Years at the Tahs? He was a Junior Waratah for one season.

He improved a massive amount from his four years playing in the UK, France and Japan before joining the Crusaders.

There's no doubt he's an excellent player right now but you're making it sound like he went from being a dud at the Tahs to a roaring success at the Crusaders overnight.

He certainly wouldn't be the first large human to have the coordination of a baby giraffe when he's 18-20 before becoming quite skillful in his mid to late 20s.

He couldn't hold a ball for Randwick, but was block busting when he held it. Couldn't pass and the less said about the kicking the better. It is truly a remarkable transition. Lets compare to say a highly skilled schoolboy prodigy whohad all the skills far in excess of his school mates (Beale) and asked the question if he has improved the weak areas of his game?

I do agree with FPs point about wanting to be coached.

I can't remember if he ever did get on the bench for the Tahs?

 

[Dancin_Digby]

31 and 16 according to SANZAR

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/teams/?competition=205&season=2015&team=250

probably an interpretation disparity I'm guessing i.e. what consists of a missed tackle. fox sports use the stats for supercoach and there is a lot of money up for grabs, and as such over the years there has been a lot of debate over the validity of their stats, so these days they're pretty spot on.

 

[Gnostic]

Interesting comparison on the SANZAR site. Turner tackle completion 66%. Beale 61%. I use this comparison as KB (Kurtley Beale) is often defending at 15 or on the wing. Folau at 71% with more turnovers conceded.

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/teams/?competition=205&season=2015&team=250

Individuals don't matter as much as how they fit into the whole system. When the system is shit the individual can't do a hell of a lot.

When we compare with who I regard as the benchmark for fullbacks, Ben Smith, we have 85% tackle completion with only 10 turnovers conceded (half that of Turner and Folau. Dagg with only 5 games played has an 83% tackle rate but turned over as much ball (on average) as Turner and Folau.

So is Turner's defence that bad in Australian terms? It is in attack that he is shown up by Folau and others.

Funny the stats back up my subjective view on Harris (v Turner in terms of upside potential), he is the best 15 in Oz in terms of tackle completion.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

While those stats are valid and interesting what they don't tell you is how many helpers the 15 had when he was in the last line and how much room the insurgent had to beat his man.
That said I dont think the tackling of the fullback is where the Reds are going wrong.

 

[Gnostic]

While those stats are valid and interesting what they don't tell you is how many helpers the 15 had when he was in the last line and how much room the insurgent had to beat his man.
That said I dont think the tackling of the fullback is where the Reds are going wrong.

I fully agree. I don't dislike stats, but they only ever tell a part of the story and are often misused by those pushing a certain viewpoint. Hence Why I posted what I did. The real place that Turnr falls down in the stats is in attack, but again is that from a individual issue or because of the team's structures and support play? I'd say a bit of both when you consider historical analysis both subjective and objective.

 

[hammertimethere]

In a previous interview he said he needed the kick up the arse of not being wanted.

Coaching is one thing, but the big thing is between their ears, they have to want to be coached

I have heard from contemporaries of Nem's that when he was a schoolboy and colt it was the old story, prodigiously gifted athlete with hands like feet and lacked ticker.

It wasn't the lack of coaching that drove him from Australia but is certainly disappointing that Australia does not get to enjoy the skillful, high workrate animal he has become.

 

[southsider]

probably an interpretation disparity I'm guessing i.e. what consists of a missed tackle. fox sports use the stats for supercoach and there is a lot of money up for grabs, and as such over the years there has been a lot of debate over the validity of their stats, so these days they're pretty spot on.

When you take out offloads, and balls popped up off the deck (both are considered incomplete tackles by fox) and last grasp cover defence while a player is going for a try, all of which happen a lot to fullbacks his missed tackle stats would be a lot lower

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Years at the Tahs? He was a Junior Waratah for one season.

He was a full squad member for 2 years - 2009 and 2010.

 

[Tangawizi]

Anyone know where Beau is at with his injury? Same goes for Quirk, O'Donoghue & Tui.

And Hunt. Forgot about him.

 

[RugbyReg]

Odonaghue has been playing club. Quirk was in a photo of a team training session this week. I thought beau played club last weekend but could be mistaken.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Beau did

 

[Lindommer]

With all due respect to these players (and to Matt Burke) is there a future for Robinson, O'Donoghue or Quirk at the Reds after 2015? Surely it's time for some sort of cleanout.

 

[RugbyReg]

Word is at least those first 2 are potentially gone. Not sure about Ed. I hear the Rebels are looking for more backrowers.

 

[TOCC]

If Gill goes then Quirk stays


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[Train Without a Station]

If Gill goes then Quirk stays


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If Gill went I'd be looking to keep Beau. Gill doesn't really cover 6 and Quirk doesn't really cover 7 or 8. If Gill goes you've got an a basically untried rookie in Gunn as your sole 7 option.

Personally I'd only have 1 of Schatz and Quirk after what I've seen. I'd take Schatz because of his versatility and line out jumping. Ed has only played well at 6, isn't as strong in the set piece and despite looking like he may have been the best of the 2 in 2013, he trailed off the failed to back it up prior to injury in 2014.

 

[Red Heavy]

Just heard a radio interview with knuckles who said JOC (James O'Connor) will be 15 - they see khunt as a 13 and kerevi as a 12... Mcintyre and Greene to get their first taste of super 15 this weekend as well and most importantly at 10

 

[Intruder]

Just heard a radio interview with knuckles who said JOC (James O'Connor) will be 15 - they see khunt as a 13 and kerevi as a 12. Mcintyre and Greene to get their first taste of super 15 this weekend as well and most importantly at 10

That looks like the team they are going to go with

 

[RugbyReg]

And Fainga'a out with concussion. Interesting to see the impact of Connolly already on team selections. .