humanbeast
Ted Fahey (11)
Get your pitchforks and light some torches?
Reds 2015
- Thread starter No4918
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RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Yes, Horan keeps saying 'they'll bring in a 'coaching consultant'' to assist RG. Greg M was suitably cynical 'what'll he do?'. Then speculated that Knuckles task might be to 'get rid of Graham'.
What a joke - the head coach, after nearly 3 years at the Reds, needs a 'coaching consultant'.
As I've posted before, the staggering possibility remains that we could still see some kind of mad scenario for 2016 whereby 'a totally fresh young team and much strengthened coaching support group led by Richard' is attempted to be sold to us all as a 'learning from the last two seasons' plan for 'the next generation of Reds success'.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
biggsy
Chilla Wilson (44)
@RedsHappy as long as RG is head coach there will be no Reds success and the young talented Qld born and bred rugby players will be looking else where.
I also have A feeling that RG will be there next year not doing much for the future of the young talent.
I offten think where would be Cooper,Genia and the Reds be if Ewen didn't get appointed head coach. I certainly don't think that they would be the players they are now (or Genia was) with out him.
I also have A feeling that RG will be there next year not doing much for the future of the young talent.
I offten think where would be Cooper,Genia and the Reds be if Ewen didn't get appointed head coach. I certainly don't think that they would be the players they are now (or Genia was) with out him.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^ Is that sh!tstirring from the Terrograph or have they picked up on this vvvv?
Maybe the "usually reliable sources" weren't spreading "pure unadulterated gossip".
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
It's not unusual either in a last placed team.
The players have to accept that they are sub standard,or blame the coach.
I think it's both.
Edit: Im not referring to all the players,just some of the stars from '11, whose form has degenerated,and appear to be sacred cows.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
The issues are somewhat more complex than that. I hear from many sources that RG has created a micro-culture within the team whereby players who speak up with any form of critique or 'non party line' input are punished or actively discouraged, in one form or another.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Generally what weak and insecure managers do. Strong managers openly encourage feedback because they know what they are talking about and aren't afraid to be proven wrong, plus they also want those they are managing to be engaged and to be constantly strategically thinking.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Partially correct IMO.
Link inherited a backline from Mooney that played some marvellous attacking rugby. QC (Quade Cooper), Genia, Hynes and Ioane were already playing in the mode that took them to the 2011 title. What they did not have was effective defensive structures, fitness/conditioning and a forward pack that made a cohesive whole. Link brought a very effective management system and group to the Reds that enabled the completion of the side in those missing areas. I honestly think that people make a huge mistake when they attribute the backline skills and play of the Qld backs c2010-2011 to Link, it was there before (though inconsistent) and no Link coached side before or since have displayed that sort of backline play, indeed, since 2011 the Reds gradually moved away from attacking play towards the more conservative plans Link coached at the Tahs, SF and afterwards the Wobs. Cogent arguments can be made that this was because of player losses in the likes of Hynes and Ioane, yet we saw Chieka come in and take essentially the same % based side that Foley had created to a purely attacking game in 2013.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
It's quite strange how many fans give Link ALL the kudos for 2011, and no responsibility for what has happened since.
At the very least,it should be acknowledged that he was the architect of the "succession plan" and subsequent appointment of RG, that was tied to his campaign for the Wobbly job.
At the very least,it should be acknowledged that he was the architect of the "succession plan" and subsequent appointment of RG, that was tied to his campaign for the Wobbly job.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
What evidence is there of this? It was no secret he wanted the Wallabies job and I don't see at all how it was his responsibility to then set up his successor. Seems just as likely to me the QRU wanted a succession plan.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I should also have said in my post, that what I said is not intended to belittle the achievement of Link in fixing those areas where the Reds were deficient. Make no mistake no matter how good their attacking play was under Mooney, the deficiencies mentioned were fatal to any genuine title aspirations. The Reds couldn't have achieved what they did without Link and IMO crucially the structures created off the field by McCall and Carmichael et al. Nothing I have posted is meant to downplay those achievements, the victory was a wonderful achievement in a very poor period in Australian Rugby. The achievements off the field in the structure and recovery of the Reds is miraculous and should serve as a blue print for Rugby management reform.
All my critical comment stems from actions, processes and the predictable outcomes we have seen since those great achievements were made. Is it possible that the great reformers were ill suited to actually bedding down a running the now successful organisation? Their skills did not reside in those areas and perhaps a lack of self awareness or arrogance of this led to the situation the Reds are in now? It would be a great pity if it were the case and the great achievements and opportunity for a lasting legacy starting with Mooney and all those others named (and not named) are lost through intransigence and arrogance.
All my critical comment stems from actions, processes and the predictable outcomes we have seen since those great achievements were made. Is it possible that the great reformers were ill suited to actually bedding down a running the now successful organisation? Their skills did not reside in those areas and perhaps a lack of self awareness or arrogance of this led to the situation the Reds are in now? It would be a great pity if it were the case and the great achievements and opportunity for a lasting legacy starting with Mooney and all those others named (and not named) are lost through intransigence and arrogance.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
It wasn't, but he was certainly involved, even from an outsiders POV.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
He may have been involoved. I doubt they would have brought in someone that Link didn't like or want to work with. So he would have needed to have some input. To suggest he was the architect though is likely a large overstatement.
In hindsight the whole 'succession' was the wrong move, and many here suggested it would be. After Graham started as an asssitant head coach taking the reigns would have been very difficult to create his own culture. Some people can do it eg Larkham, some can't. Be interesting to see how the Tahs go under similar circumstances next year. In my admittedly limited observations it seems to go wrong more often than right.
In hindsight the whole 'succession' was the wrong move, and many here suggested it would be. After Graham started as an asssitant head coach taking the reigns would have been very difficult to create his own culture. Some people can do it eg Larkham, some can't. Be interesting to see how the Tahs go under similar circumstances next year. In my admittedly limited observations it seems to go wrong more often than right.
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
I thought it was openly knowledge that Link was NOT in favour of Woody?
He certainly did not hire him.
He certainly did not hire him.
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
I'm not sure I see the connection. I have a cupboard full of sauces too.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Regardless or who did or didn't have input into RG's appointment, surely it's obvious to the QRU that things are now spiralling dangerously into the abyss.
While money is a big factor in player movements, the Reds will find it extremely difficult to retain and/or recruit elite level players with RG et al in place. The longer this current situation goes on the harder it will be to bring it back.
I watched a replay of the Reds v Bulls game yesterday afternoon and decided to focus on individuals for periods of time and there is a lot of talent in that Reds team who are all trying really hard. At the moment they resemble the French national team who seemingly have little cohesion across the field and the tactics seem just wierd. For example on a number of times coming out of defence the centres run through as decoys and Frisbee gave it to Hunt for the kick - it happened that often it must have been practised, but it was done so ponderously that I don't think it came off once. If you can't get a long kick downfield in Pretoria you can't anywhere.
Good players are actually better off without a coach than with a bad coach.
While money is a big factor in player movements, the Reds will find it extremely difficult to retain and/or recruit elite level players with RG et al in place. The longer this current situation goes on the harder it will be to bring it back.
I watched a replay of the Reds v Bulls game yesterday afternoon and decided to focus on individuals for periods of time and there is a lot of talent in that Reds team who are all trying really hard. At the moment they resemble the French national team who seemingly have little cohesion across the field and the tactics seem just wierd. For example on a number of times coming out of defence the centres run through as decoys and Frisbee gave it to Hunt for the kick - it happened that often it must have been practised, but it was done so ponderously that I don't think it came off once. If you can't get a long kick downfield in Pretoria you can't anywhere.
Good players are actually better off without a coach than with a bad coach.
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