Reds 2015

[TheBigDog]

There's talk of Genia but I still reckon he's a pedantic brat so I'm kind of keen for him to fuck off and see what Frisby can do.

Out of the Reds 'core' I believe Genia is most likely to be the first one to move on post 2015, especially if the rumors are already starting to float around, not saying I believe everything in the media but in Genia's case it doesn't surprise me.

The Reds need to start thinking about their options because Frisby has shown he's capable of starting for a S15 team. I reckon if they somehow manage to keep holding Genia on 1 or 2yr deals without securing Frisby long term then we are at risk of losing two very good halfbacks in quick succession.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Gill would be off his rocker to look overseas unless he has an absolutely abysmal season this year.

Why ??. The bloke is down the pecking order to at least 3/4
Hooper (still a kid), Pocock (still young). I understand he is not feeling the love - nationally and Reds,

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As well as the lack of current love for LF Gill, there are a few young'uns nipping at his heels keen to wear a red jumper with 7 on the back of it in 2-4 years time such as Wilkin, Gunn et al. I reckon he is a 50/50 chance to say au revoir to the ARU.

 

[Scoey]

As good as wilkin and gunn have been, neither of them are going to push Liam or Beau out of the reds squad any time soon.


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[Braveheart81]

I'd have thought Gill would be very unlikely to go overseas in the next couple of years.

It seems the biggest benefactors of heading to Europe are players who aren't regular starters for their Super Rugby side or Wallabies whose star has potentially reached it's peak and they're looking to cash in.

Whilst I'm sure Gill would be able to attract plenty of European offers, it wouldn't seem like the sort of situation where it would be worth taking. I'd question how much more money he'd be able to earn in Europe than he earns in Australia.

The situation would probably be different if he was a prop or a lock.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

OP edited. The "ones in the oven" probably won't be ready until about 2016-2018. LF Gill and his bean counters would be looking at the best time to jump ship when his marketability to the Euro or the Yen is maximised, and this must be at a time when he is still #1 choice to be in the Reds matchday 23.

 

[USARugger]

Why ??. The bloke is down the pecking order to at least 3/4
Hooper (still a kid), Pocock (still young). I understand he is not feeling the love - nationally and Reds,

How about we let Pocock play an hour of rugby this decade before we pencil him in over, well, anyone.

The leaves Hooper in front of him for 7. Unless one of Hodgo or Gill has the season of a lifetime (in either direction) Gilly is at least just as likely as Hodgo to get the nod for the RWC squad.

That's second or third-choice at absolute worst. It's not like injuries to back-rowers are exactly uncommon. McMahon may push him this coming year and definitely will the year after the way he's been trending, but not right now. Not nearly enough for Liam to be looking into Europe.

Wasn't the majority (if not all) of the time he missed with the Reds this year due to injury? Pretty hard to get selected for any side if you aren't physically capable of playing.

He's 22, playing for the club he grew up wanting to play for, on a fair pay docket by all accounts, about to start the entire season unless he's injured again and is a strong candidate for Olympic 7s selection.

Doubt he's going anywhere, anytime soon.

 

[Wilson]

Or after Olympic gold?

 

[Highlander35]

There's a buttload of Openside Talent in Australia, who could play international rugby, that's without taking into account Robinson, Alcock, Butler, McCutcheon or Fuglistaller who are all more than capable Super players.

Creates a competitive environment. Can only be a good thing, as long as you don't lose 3 or 4 within a year or two, not giving the youngsters a chance to step up in response.

 

[Braveheart81]

The situation is different for every player as well.

There are the players who see their rugby career as their one chance to provide a good income for not only their immediate family but also a wider group of relatives (like Sitaleki Timani for example). They want to make as many dollars as possible during their career and that choice is understandable.

Then there are just as many players who come from at least a moderately privileged background who probably see their professional rugby career as a blessing that allows them to do something they love and be paid well for it. At the end of the day, they'll play rugby while they can and enjoy it and then do something else afterwards.

Presumably Liam Gill has either been to uni or is studying part time currently. It may work out that he is happy with what he is earning now and has absolutely no plans to go anywhere looking for more money.

 

[Train Without a Station]

BH. Prime example. Phil Waugh.

 

[Train Without a Station]

There's a buttload of Openside Talent in Australia, who could play international rugby, that's without taking into account Robinson, Alcock, Butler, McCutcheon or Fuglistaller who are all more than capable Super players.

Hey! Our Beau is Wallaby capped! Don't lump him in with those hacks! (Except Butler isn't a hack since he's from QLD).

 

[Braveheart81]

BH. Prime example. Phil Waugh.

You'd imagine that playing 79 tests resulted in his career being pretty lucrative despite never playing outside of Australia.

Gill at 22 could easily play 50+ tests by the time his career finishes without ever being the consistent first choice 7 for the Wallabies. He's already played 15.

 

[Train Without a Station]

He's already played 15. At 14 tests most season he could reach 79 in less than 5 seasons.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Liam is a very smart fellow and achieved a very high OP score. He could no doubt "study" near anything. He will be a guy who plays overseas, not only for the $$$$$$ but also for the lifestyle and experience.

Plenty of players have historically gone OS at the end of their Wallaby careers. But NOW some younger fellows in the middle of their careers ARE looking at playing some years OS and returning in the year of the 2019 RWC

These types of players have played test matches, Super 15 matches and now look for some serious bucks together with that OS lifestyle. The passionate driving urge as a young fella to play for your franchise then takes a back seat until the next RWC year.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Stop putting blokes out to pasture before their time Scubber! I reckon within the first 10 rounds of next season you'll be saying "Tongan Thor" is past it and will go overseas!

 

[TheBigDog]

There has been more of a trend for some of the fringe Wallabies/S15 blokes to head overseas while they're a bit younger. Most of them caught onto the fact they can beat the post-RWC exoduses and get the bigger paycheck with more game time. Still to early to be considering a guy like Gill going o/s in my opinion though.

Back to more specific Reds stuff. After watching the Bris City v Qld Country on the weekend I'd have to say Sef Fagaase may be in line for a full contract in 2015, i'm unaware if he's currently on something but it seems like he's definitely the pick of the Qld NRC props. Kite seems to have fallen out of favor and hasn't been selected for several weeks now.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But seriously:

1. Nathan Sharpe
2. Phil Waugh
3. Tom Carter
4. Stirling Mortlock
5. Adam Frier
6. Al Baxter
7. John Roe
8. David Croft
9. Peter Hynes
10. Matt Hodgson
11. Luke Morahan
12. Ben McCalman
13. Sam Wykes
14. Mitch Inman
15. Tom Kingston
16. Mike Harris
17. Ben Alexander
18. Benn Robinson
19. Jeremy Tilse
20. Dave Dennis
21. Stephen Hoiles
22. Pat McCutcheon
23. Brendan McKibbin
24. Jono Lance
25. Ben Daley
26. Greg Holmes
27. Saia Fainga'a
28. James Hanson
29. James Horwill
30. Beau Robinson
31. Anthony Fainga'a
32. Ben Tapuai
33. Lachie Turner

That's a list of either recently retired, or players whom are still playing and older than Gill but either in the same position in the national pecking order, or at their franchise pecking order. Each and every one of these players could earn more money playing in Europe or Japan. Some could be better players in their style of game than in Super Rugby. Every one is still contracted to a Super Rugby team and has never played overseas since their debut (With the exception of ITM Cup stints whilst contracted to Super Rugby clubs.
Just because there's been high profile departures, doesn't mean it's the path all players follow.

 

[Scrubber2050]

But seriously:

1. Nathan Sharpe
2. Phil Waugh
3. Tom Carter
4. Stirling Mortlock
5. Adam Frier
6. Al Baxter
7. John Roe
8. David Croft
9. Peter Hynes
10. Matt Hodgson
11. Luke Morahan
12. Ben McCalman
13. Sam Wykes
14. Mitch Inman
15. Tom Kingston
16. Mike Harris
17. Ben Alexander
18. Benn Robinson
19. Jeremy Tilse
20. Dave Dennis
21. Stephen Hoiles
22. Pat McCutcheon
23. Brendan McKibbin
24. Jono Lance
25. Ben Daley
26. Greg Holmes
27. Saia Fainga'a
28. James Hanson
29. James Horwill
30. Beau Robinson
31. Anthony Fainga'a
32. Ben Tapuai
33. Lachie Turner

That's a list of either recently retired, or players whom are still playing and older than Gill but either in the same position in the national pecking order, or at their franchise pecking order. Each and every one of these players could earn more money playing in Europe or Japan. Some could be better players in their style of game than in Super Rugby. Every one is still contracted to a Super Rugby team and has never played overseas since their debut (With the exception of ITM Cup stints whilst contracted to Super Rugby clubs.

Just because there's been high profile departures, doesn't mean it's the path all players follow.

NOBODY has said that all players follow that path. TWAS you are kidding yourself about me putting players out to pasture too early.

You need to read what is said, then comprehend it and make a comment based on the actual comment.

TWAS are you saying Mr Thor will be playing Super 15 at the Reds in 2014 ????

 

[Wilson]

There has been more of a trend for some of the fringe Wallabies/S15 blokes to head overseas while they're a bit younger. Most of them caught onto the fact they can beat the post-RWC exoduses and get the bigger paycheck with more game time. Still to early to be considering a guy like Gill going o/s in my opinion though.

Back to more specific Reds stuff. After watching the Bris City v Qld Country on the weekend I'd have to say Sef Fagaase may be in line for a full contract in 2015, i'm unaware if he's currently on something but it seems like he's definitely the pick of the Qld NRC props. Kite seems to have fallen out of favor and hasn't been selected for several weeks now.

He's looking good, fagaase, if it's two props to be signed you'd think it would be him and either talakai or paraka, depending on their confidence in his ability to play either side, probably paraka at this point given fagaase has been going well at tight head.