Reds 2014

[Jets]

I think Japan is more likely if he goes OS. He would likely extend his career by a few years playing over there and my understanding is that the rugby community over there is very tight knit, most living very close to each other, so he wouldn't be too isolated.

 

[BDA]

I'd hate to see Digby leave, but could understand him having a desire to earn a few bucks. Shame for the Reds and the Wallabies though.

Totally agree although I'm so sure it effects the Wallabies too much. Whilst Digby did demonstrate last week that's he still got it, realistically his form has been on the decline since the end of 2011. He's not as explosive as he once was and, whilst there was a time when I think many would have considered him for a world 15, that time has probably gone. He looks noticably slower than he was 2-3 years ago. I expect he'd be struggling to make the starting team by 2015.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Lions tour is his last hoorah in terms of test rugby. I wish him the best of fortunes overseas.

 

[Richo]

I agree with this. He's still a class player and he makes meters and busts tackles, but he doesn't seem the same scoring threat he once was. Is he worth $800k per year? Hard to say.

 

[Braveheart81]

People need to remember that during the 2012 season we were missing O'Connor for the entirety, Genia for a lot of it, Cooper for most of it (and in poor form when he did play) and Beale for some of it (with mixed form for a lot of when he played... finally improving on the EOYT).

The fact that most of our star playmakers were either missing or were performing below their best during 2012 limits opportunities for players like Ioane greatly. Firstly, he becomes one of our more obvious attacking threats meaning he is marked more heavily and secondly, there are less opportunities from our playmakers creating breaks or similar that he is likely to end up on the receiving end of.

Like our whole backline's 2012 form, Ioane doesn't exist in a vacuum. If our star players are missing or playing poorly it makes everyone else's game go down as well.

 

[Jets]

I agree with this. He's still a class player and he makes meters and busts tackles, but he doesn't seem the same scoring threat he once was. Is he worth $800k per year? Hard to say.

Both my kids list him as their favourite player, as does my wife for different reasons. I think his value as a promotion for the game is worth a bit, but dropping after this week.

 

[USARugger]

After looking at his 2012 and 2013 stats one thing we will need to focus on replacing will be his sheer workrate and meters gained. Try scoring or not even in matches without Genia at 9 he was getting between 12-16 touches for 115-150m. That's a huge amount of output for one player and to do it with near every-game regularity is astounding.

 

[BDA]

I think Tomane and Folau could both play a similar roaming role. Both are quite good in the contact, both can bust tackles. Tomane does a bit of this work for the brumbies and Folau doesnt do a lot yet because he's probably not confortable enough at this stage to roam far from his mark.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Jets - obviously your kids aspire to having a body like Digby and your wife likes his running game - Agree re the big personalty - kids love him - also agree that is a bit on the nose ATM. Is he wiorth $800K - nah - rather see some of that shared around

 

[Scrubber2050]

After looking at his 2012 and 2013 stats one thing we will need to focus on replacing will be his sheer workrate and meters gained. Try scoring or not even in matches without Genia at 9 he was getting between 12-16 touches for 115-150m. That's a huge amount of output for one player and to do it with near every-game regularity is astounding.

Sometimes stats are great when only looking at the positives and they are GREAT - would also be interesting to see some of the negative stats of Diggers such as ball security (when he hits the ground), bad passes, dropped ball.

 

[Scoey]

I'd like to echo Braveheart81 's comments. With our backline last year, it was pretty obvious where the danger existed. Digby was it. Contain him and the next best threat was daylight behind. If defences have their hands full across the park looking out for guys like Genia, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale etc, all of a sudden Digby has more time and space and less tackles to beat.

 

[Richo]

I'd like to echo Braveheart81 's comments. With our backline last year, it was pretty obvious where the danger existed. Digby was it. Contain him and the next best threat was daylight behind. If defences have their hands full across the park looking out for guys like Genia, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale etc, all of a sudden Digby has more time and space and less tackles to beat.

Yeah, totally agreed with that. But I more think he hasn't set the world on fire in Super Rugby this season. Very good, but not great -- and in a season packed with exciting emerging talent in the outside backs. Value is always relative to the market. I'm a big Digby fan, so not having a go. Just interested to see what the view is.

 

[something]

Im not too adverse to JOC (James O'Connor) being in the team. He is an exciting talent, but i just don't know where you would fit him in. Ideally 13 but i dont think he likes playing there does he. He is better than both Taps & Lanch but i dont really like the idea of either of them being dropped. We dont need a winger either because of Ships & F'Sautia. (and he would be wasted at 14 at super level)

 

[humanbeast]

SBW

 

[USARugger]

He would pretty undoubtedly play at 15.

 

[Bowside]

He would pretty undoubtedly play at 15.

I think he would slot in well at 13 in place of Fainga'a. Or maybe even 14 with Sautia at 13.

Lance and Cooper have a good thing going with there 10/15 thing. No need to interrupt it.

Genia
Cooper
Shipperly
Tapuai
O'Connor/CFS
CFS/O'Connor
Lance

 

[RedsHappy]

He would pretty undoubtedly play at 15.

J Lance is a loyal journeyman with great attitude and (mostly) sound defence. That's it, he's not good enough to really optimise the Reds' attacking potential when an outstanding 15 is called for in broken play and on the counter.

If the Reds are truly serious about 'building to greatness' and their like slogans of admirable ambition, we will need (at least) (a) a better, faster, longer-kicking 15 along the lines of a Mogg and (b) a far faster and more attack-skilful 13 with better hands than A Fainga'a.

IMO, we are not an optimised attacking backs unit for the competitive threats and improved attacking skills we're seeing in the current S15. One of the reasons our BP and PD counts remain relatively low. I remain concerned that too much of the Reds' strengths and attacking ability rests with Horwill, Genia and Cooper 'all having good games at once' vs a more decentralised and somewhat broader capability that I think, for example, the Brumbies and Chiefs possess today.

Anyone seeing JO'C cut the Cru up today will understand what a great addition he could be to the Reds at 15 - subject to cultural and behavioural concerns from his past.

The Reds will need to be ruthless and tough-minded re 2014's team construction if 'when greatness calls' means more than 'we can only win when Horwill, Genia and Cooper are all on the park'.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You get the feeling that the Reds are particularly vulnerable when one of Horwill, Genia or QC (Quade Cooper) are having a bad day at the office.

The real challenge is to get weaned off the reliance on these 3 key players to become a machine like the Crusaders.

Insert referee, opponent, and spectators and it just works. Despite the on field success this year, the Reds aren't there just yet.

Just when you think that they have got it, blokes like FingerS and Taps have a form slump and expose vulnerabilities. The bloody Crusaders just pick up the Christchurch phone book and ring up one of the Whitelock's relatives and well you know the result.

There are some good players coming up through the ranks in QLD via the various pathways and academies. The challenge for the Reds is to lock them in before the Force, Rebels or Ponies get their hands on them.

The Ponies, from Day 1 have been anti-John West and taken the fish that John West (Sydney RU politics) reject and in the absence of petty Sydney club and school politics turned them into decent players. Protect your young folk from that mob.

 

[TOCC]

The Reds/Link like a ball playing fullback, it helps to alleviate the pressure on Quade when he is been targeted, it's why Link rarely playes the likes of Morahan/Davies or Shipperly at fullback. He will nearly always choose Harris, Lance or Lucas over a 'running' fullback.

Say what you like about Fainga'a, but a large part of the Reds game is aggressive defence and he is the back line lynchpin in this regard. That's not to say a big athletic centre like SBW wouldn't go astray, but those are rare commodities in Australia and I think comparatively A.Fainga'a is about as good as we're gonna get.

I

 

[Gnostic]

You get the feeling that the Reds are particularly vulnerable when one of Horwill, Genia or QC (Quade Cooper) are having a bad day at the office.

The real challenge is to get weaned off the reliance on these 3 key players to become a machine like the Crusaders.

Insert referee, opponent, and spectators and it just works. Despite the on field success this year, the Reds aren't there just yet.

Just when you think that they have got it, blokes like FingerS and Taps have a form slump and expose vulnerabilities. The bloody Crusaders just pick up the Christchurch phone book and ring up one of the Whitelock's relatives and well you know the result.

There are some good players coming up through the ranks in QLD via the various pathways and academies. The challenge for the Reds is to lock them in before the Force, Rebels or Ponies get their hands on them.

The Ponies, from Day 1 have been anti-John West and taken the fish that John West (Sydney RU politics) reject and in the absence of petty Sydney club and school politics turned them into decent players. Protect your young folk from that mob.

I would like to disagree. Remove Reid, Carter and McCaw and things are nearly so refined in Crusader land. They come a long way back to the pack.

I agree the Reds have to be able to respond to what the opposition is doing, but I don't regard the Blues game as a particular failing. The Blues played very well and and attacked the Reds in a very Reds like fashion. I thought the Reds defence was excellent. I don't see S. Fainga'a as being out of form, just back to what he usually plays at and Tapuai just got outplayed, behind a forward pack that was struggling to match their opposition.

My point is take three leaders out of any side in the competition, or go wider and say any competition (excepting Toulon and maybe some other French clubs who have bought all the leaders and experience that three clubs could use) and the side would struggle. I don't see this as a failing of the Reds, their systems were after all able to cover for the loss of four 10s last year in an admirable fashion.

 

[Gnostic]

The Reds/Link like a ball playing fullback, it helps to alleviate the pressure on Quade when he is been targeted, it's why Link rarely playes the likes of Morahan/Davies or Shipperly at fullback. He will nearly always choose Harris, Lance or Lucas over a 'running' fullback.

Say what you like about Fainga'a, but a large part of the Reds game is aggressive defence and he is the back line lynchpin in this regard. That's not to say a big athletic centre like SBW wouldn't go astray, but those are rare commodities in Australia and I think comparatively A.Fainga'a is about as good as we're gonna get.

I

Actually I see the Reds as a very good example of my two 15's style. Quade fills the role of the second 15 and the wingers are pure specialist wingers. I would suggest that Link isn't denying Morahan a shot at 15, just that Lance is playing very well at the moment and his skill set is complimentary to QC (Quade Cooper)'s. Harris, Lance or Lucas all display the complimentary skill sets I speak about, and I don't think it has anything to do with "ball playing" but more to do with providing options. Davies, Shipperly are wingers and just don't fulfil the skill set required for the balance sought.