Rebels vs. Waratahs - 2011R01

[Gnostic]

Don't know what posters you are refering to but what occured should not be surprising as Somerville is and always has been a THP for both the crusaders and ABs. And at international level he has been a much better prop than Baxter.

Scrums were a mixed bag, penalties both ways until firstly the yellow card to Ged Robinson allowed the Tahs to get some dominance and then after the simultaneous subbing of Kepu for Robinson and Henderson for Weekes the Tahs got well on top. The Rebels scrum was a lot better with Somerville at THP and Henderson at LHP, this has to be their only option going forward.

A few posters here and elsewhere had been saying things like "can't wait to see Sommerville shove Baxter head through his arse" etc.

Even before the changes you mentioned the Reb scrum was under extreme pressure and was giving up penalties. On the third or fourth scrum of the game G. Robinson struggled even to strike the ball. The issues just became more pronounced after the subs were made. At the end of the game when Kepu came back on at THP the Rebs still struggled.

 

[Dumbledore]

I'm going to go and drink a lot now

 

[chriss555]

Tahs: Great start to our super rugby season.

Rebels: there`s a old rugby saying " Winning isnt everything but waiting to Win Is " could be a long season ...

Go The Tahs

 

[Gnostic]

Like I said earlier the ability of the Tahs to dominate the rucks without committing many players made life very hard for the Rebels. How many balls did the Tahs pinch and then have numbers over because of their dominance.

Then have a look at the mauls. The Tahs moved theirs forward at pace and with relative ease while the Rebs never got any movement and even turned ball over.

It appeared to me that a significant portion of this was due to the added strength and weight of the Tahs. Of note was also the fact that the Tahs actually stepped up a gear in the second 40 and the Rebs were unable to go with the speed. In fact Lipman when interviewed made mention of the pace of the game as compared with what he was used to.

Very happy to see a return of some cohesive forward play in the Tahs, not just bullshit one out hit ups and and flooding the ruck area.

 

[daz]

Future trivial pursuit question was always going to be "Who scored the first points for the Rebels?"

Now the second part of that question is "In what round?"

 

[Groucho]

No. Hell, even Ali has been sensible when appearing on G&GR. My point is there's a great deal of BS being expressed on PR. You occasionally come across topics worth commenting but for the most part its full of nonsensical rubbish. Not to mention the Kiwi arrogance, I really hope we beat the ABs in the RWC Final just to take them a peg or two. I like most if not all the Aussie based posters as I do tend to interact with them more often.

PR is a social networking site for misanthropes. The Aussies are consistently good but many of the Kiwis are nuts. The Irish are basically all nuts.

 

[daz]

Burgess had a cracking game. Delivered quick ball all game and ensured the Tahs were always on the front foot.

And the passion and chat was great to see from Burgess. He wants it. Gotta love that.

 

[barbarian]

That game was proof of one of two things- the Tahs are really good or the Rebels are really bad. As much as I desperately want it to be the former, in my heart of hearts I think it may be shown to be the latter.

 

[Lee Grant]

Some random thoughts on the game, in no particular order:

Rebels
• Was disappointed in the performance of the Rebels even taking into account all the reasons why we should be patient with a new team. But, for example, if Horan, a back, though a genius, can notice over-participation at the ruck, why couldn't the forward leaders of the Rebels spot it and improve it on the run?


• I did not expect a 0-33 scoreline for the 2nd half. How likely is it that the SAffer press will lambast SANZAR with complaint that the Spears should have got the new franchise?


• Many pundits on this forum were right: that the first quarter of the game would be even, but the Tahs would hold the Rebels back and make hay in the 2nd half. I didn't expect so much hay: I thought the Tahs would win with a 10-15 point margin, not a 40+ one


Waratahs
• In my eyes Waugh was the MOTM for the Tahs (again) but the gong should have gone the the Men Of The Match: the Tahs forwards. The commentators prattled on about the line speed of defending backs. It was good, but I noticed the participation speed of the forwards more.


Too often I have criticised the Tahs (and the Wallabies for that matter), for ball watching, waiting to see what will happen, being too frightened to commit to an action, yarda, yarda. None of that tonight: it was intervention, most of it legal, and it was pro-active. They gave the ball watching tag to their opponents.


• Mitchell has turned into a predator/finisher of a high order. His decision making is almost immaculate and was better than that of Beale on the night. Beale fluffed a few of his lines but not the one that said: “Hold onto that ball for your 2nd try because the bloke you could pass it to won't score.”


• Carter also straightened the line when he could have passed but mostly it was the right decision, since the receivers of those forgone passes would have most likely got nailed.


• The survival of Horne before he was relieved was one of the highlights for me. If I have lauded the forwards in being pro-active in their activities, Horne was scarcely less diligent in the things he did and when he did them.


• I can't remember the Tahs being so successful in converting attacking prospects into scoring tries. The individuals helped, including those with single numbers on their jerseys, but the combined efforts of the back three was like a deadly force to the Rebels.


• Off loading was excellent and I don't just mean training ground meaningless hot potato off loading. It was off loading wherein the receiver put himself into a gap, or a likely situation. way before he got the ball, and then was recognised by the off-loader just in time.


• Burgess, love him or hate him, had a top game. We can criticise his pass to the cows come home, and tell him we will deliver a truckload of bricks to his place to practice with – to pass across his lawn, like NFJ did, to improve his pass. But, like Kelleher, what you see is what you get with Burgo, and like Kelleher, you get the 4th backrower on defence. I'd keep him.


• A good effort by the Tahs. Iif they can play anywhere like this against top teams it will be tasty.

 

[Lee Grant]

That game was proof of one of two things- the Tahs are really good or the Rebels are really bad.

Maybe not. Maybe a bit of both.

 

[Ali's Choice]

Interesting game.

Whilst more knowledgable posters will analyse this match in detail in the days to come, there were a few key points that stood out for me in the aftermatch of this suprisingly one sided affair.

Firstly, I don't think this result spells certain doom and gloom for the Rebels in 2011. Sometimes blowouts happen in rugby, and everyone will remember when the Tahs conceded 96 points to the Crusaders and went on to make the finals. The Rebels will be better for this match, and will now have a much clearer idea of where they stand against quality Super Rugby opposition, and what they must do to compete with the best teams.

Secondly, the Tahs deserve all credit. They are a quality, cohesive team who played like a side that has the confidence in their gameplan, and each other. They've got an excellent mix of youth and experience, and healthy group of young Wallabies who are at the absolute peak of their powers. They tick all the boxes that a very good side needs to if it is to have genuine title aspirations, a great, reliable set piece, quality halves, a hard working pack at the breakdown and genuine potency in the backs. Few teams would have been able to keep the Tahs in check tonight, and that includes the Bulls and the Crusaders.

However, I don't think the Rebels can esape all criticism. I think it is legitimate to be critical of the some aspects of the Rebels recruitment. Three things strike me immediately when looking through their squad.
1) It is a very old squad, with many players well past their prime. This showed up with their inability to keep going with the Tahs in the final 30 mins, and their lack of genuine pace across the park.
2) How few current Wallabies there are in their squad. None that I could see from last year's 3N or EOYT squads.
3) How few established combinations are at the Rebels. They really are starting a team from scratch. Even the Force relied heavily on some imported combinations.

Overall, I think the Tahs were simply too cohesive as a team. Their forwards looked like they knew exactly what each other was doing in every facet, whereas in contrast the Rebel's pack seemed to lack understanding and didn't always work effectively as a unit. As a team, they didn't seem to trust each other defensively or at the breakdown. Equally, the Tahs backline showed the benefit of having played together for years at club, Super and test level. In contrast, the Rebels backline at times looked like they'd barely met each other.

 

[Lee Grant]

Excellent post Ali's Choice. Enjoyed it.

 

[Ali's Choice]

Excellent post Ali's Choice. Enjoyed it.

Thank you. I must say, whilst the result was not a surprise, the margin certainly was. I wouldn't want to be a Rebels player this week, because I imagine that the training schedule will be brutal. And deservedly so. If I were Maqueen though, I'd be very worried about a few key aspects of their game. People have drawn parallels between the Rebels and the early Brumbies, probaly because of Maqueens involvement. But to me the teams couldn't be more different. The Brumbies in 1996 were based around some key combinations from Randwick, Gordon and NSW rep rugby. Many of the Brumbies players had played together since schoolboy level, and were extremely familiar with each other. In contrast, this Rebels outfit seems as un-cohesive as I've seen in a pro-rugby team. It's not all doom and gloom, but the early signs are not good.

 

[Waylon]

The first game for a new franchise will always be difficult as indeed the first season will be. I thought they were pretty good in the first 30 minutes.
I think it was no accident they were committing 7 players to the breakdown. There was clearly a plan to pick and go and stay on the feet and drive and/or hit and spin with a short offload to a colleague to change the direction of the drive. A few times they ventured over the advantage line with gusto. The tah defence was very very good and the Rebels were unable to execute the plan of staying on the feet and driving.
They lost their starting 10 after 10 minutes. In most teams, that dooms them to failure. Hilgendorf has had rotten luck with injuries. I hope it isn't serious.
There is plenty of talent and experience in the team. They will improve tremendously as the season goes on but will have the occasional shocker as most new teams struggle to come to terms with the physicality and speed of super rugby on a week to week basis.
The Tahs were very good as well

 

[Hawko]

I want to go back and watch the game again tomorrow. Particularly, I want to know why we had so little ball in the first 20 minutes. Against the Crusaders or Bulls that would have led to a two try deficit. Also in the first 20 the scrums were not looking good at all. It wasn't till I noticed Robinson was under so much pressure that he couldn't strike (a la Moore on the EOYT) that I started to breathe easier. While we soaked up the pressure, being without the ball 80% of the time is a recipe for disaster. That being said:

1. It was an extraordinarily dominant forward performance. Most of those players played in the Highlanders match last year. The difference was there for all to see. The scrum was totally dominant. Hands up all those who thought Weeks was an outstanding scrummager. Tonight proved he isn't. Players hit rucks with power and attacked ball runners with venom. I was surprised the ambulance wasn't required at least once. Dave Dennis was outstanding for mine, better than Mowen who was pretty good. Douglas made one run that was frightening in its intensity and Mumm was quick and made yards almost every time he had the ball. I thought TPN needed the run, he was not as precise in his handling as he can be. The forward ensemble passing was excellent and there was none of that one out near the ruck stupidity that the NH teams love to play. Generally the ball was moved to where there were openings and the forwards linked well together. I felt genuinely sorry for the Rebels, they were playing in a comp about two grades higher than they were expecting.

2. Burgess was wonderful. Yes I know his pass is not the best but his speed to the ball, his sniping and his offensive defence were a huge plus.

3. The back three were very creative and ran with such pace that even when they were not precise in their passing or positioning they were still a class above.

4. Carter was excellent. Cooper Vuna will be very good for the Rebels but he was negated tonight. I did see Carter miss one tackle. I know people will criticise that he went to ground with the ball but I felt that was a positive - he doesn't throw 50-50 rubbish and he was an integral part of the attack. He wasn't slow.

5. Amidst all this congratulation, I thought there was a lot of room for improvement. The passing was on occasions not crisp or precise enough and lots of opportunities and half chances were missed. The team will be much better for the run and the game against the Reds will be a titanic struggle.

6. Unless the Reds pick Holmes their scrum will be destroyed - Kepu, Baxter, Fat Cat, Mumm and Douglas will see to that. When would you expect Weeks and Sommerville to be so dominated? The Reds are about to find out just how limited a set-piece player Saia Fainga'a is. I can't wait for the game.

 

[DPK]

[video=youtube;slyumtBgV6s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slyumtBgV6s[/video]

 

[louie]

The best part of the game was at the end when the rebels had a line out in tahs 22 and you could hear the crowd chanting "rebels! Rebels!". That's support. Great to hear.

 

[Moono75]

Sorry to say welcome to reality Rebels. Way too much hype about this team in the lead up to the game. Team continutiy will be a major factor for the next few rounds and they can't afford any injuries with their depth. Can't believe some of the so called experts (Matt Burke) think the Rebels can finish above the Force. Sunday shapes as the best the the Australain games and hope the Force serve it up to the Reds. Well done the Highlanders knocking off the Canes......they so under acheive every year Wellington. Blues v Crusaders super game...can't wait.....sliding towards Blues.

 

[The Mayor of Perth]

There is plenty of talent and experience in the team. They will improve tremendously as the season goes on but will have the occasional shocker as most new teams struggle to come to terms with the physicality and speed of super rugby on a week to week basis.
The Tahs were very good as well

Agree that the Tahs were very good, agree there's much experience in the Rebels, disagree that there's much talent (maybe 5 years ago but can't see ANY Wallabies coming from the Rebels, notwithstanding Kearnsy's serious pick of Vuna Thursday night). There was much written about how good the Rebels' set pieces could be - well, really? Not much there tonight in possies 1-14. And having much to mop up can make 15 look good. Nic Henderson is a top bloke but wasn't much chop in Perth last year and was woeful tonight. Although he managed to win a penalty once for collapsing at the hit (Lawrence guessing or the 'usual culprit Al'?). It seemed odd to me how few, if any, picked the Rebels to finish last in the 'crystal ball' thread. The evidence of the Force's first year (with a much better squad) is not that old. But the most disappointing aspect of the night was the failure of the self-proclaimed world sport capital of the world to fill the stadium. 25000 is a poor crowd for a historic first game in a city four times the size of Perth, which trotted out 37000+ for the Force's first game. And how those in the VRU were scathing of the decision to award Perth that fourth franchise, their bid team at the time paying no respect to other bids.

Now that I've got that shit of my liver... With the introduction of the Rebels, a team I wish well for the good of Oz rugby, I naturally thought that the Tahs would become my fifth favourite Super team. But there's much to admire about the Tahs since half way through last year. I think there's a big chance for Brumbies and Tahs to finish in the top three.

 

[CanadianRugby]

Boy that was frustrating. Very basic mistakes from the Rebels. Forget the questions about combinations and age, there were errors that no one playing club rugby should make. Dropped balls under no pressure, passing to a man who was about to get smashed. Very sloppy. Nerves and just a bad day at the office maybe.

In a strange way I think that its hopeful for the Rebels because you would never expect professionals to make the same mistakes two games in a row. Rebels were never going to beat the Tahs, but you'd think they could keep it closer next time out.

Don't think Delve is getting enough credit. Tackled hard in a losing cause, made yards. One play toward the end where Phibbs was looking the wrong way as Delve went to pass it, he just turned and hit it up, Rebels got safe ball.

I see the issues with Cips. He has good plays, like the grubber for big territory, but seems to run his outside backs into trouble. When he had outside backs.

Very angry at Ged Robinson's yellow. Why did he think he could get away with that?

Reffing was bad too. Made no difference to the results, just more frustrating too watch.