Rebels 2018

[swingpass]

Rebels hard at training this morning. Still a few in team rehab, Leota, Fou, Weeks, Daley, RHP, Saa'ga all running seperate to the opposed stuff. Meakes, Jeffries and Parling changed but just watching and Fijian day off ? the "blue" team forward pack once again as above and i think that Cottrell will play some games for the Rebels, he has a "head shot" on the Getty images page (no Stirzaker or Reid and a couple of young faces i didn't recognise). Still no sign of Jordy on the track. very interesting set up in the backline, not certain its how it will eventuate but DHP, Maddocks and Adams all running at 10 for different phases (including from set piece) and field position. Shipperley moving very freely on the wing. at training it is quite obvious who are the players that think quicker than the others and have the ability to manipulate the opposition into an unwanted /disadvantageous position. DHP, Adams, JD, Hutchinson, Tuipoltou all do this well imo.

 

[amirite]

Credit as well to whoever does the videos on Rebels social media. They do a great job, far better than any other Aussie side.

This effort to engage the community is just massive.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Just wondering if the time and effort would have been far more beneficial being spent finding a sponsor.

So they should all just focus on one thing and nothing else? Bravo, that would get us far!

 

[Highlander35]

A 2 day bonding camp, school visit and one NRC game is not particularly much to "give up" for a lot of goodwill, both in Ballarat and in Victoria in general methinks.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Good to hear rugby is avoiding stereotypical image of being the white collar private school based sport and working towards that more accessible more inclusive image.

Ballarat - hilarious! That' s one very (very) strong AFL region with clubs deeply entrenched in to the communities.

Just wondering if the time and effort would have been far more beneficial being spent finding a sponsor.

I don't disagree with your conclusion MST, but I do wonder where in Victoria would the description of the region being deeply entrenched in AFL not apply? As far as I can see, rugby in Victoria is really confined to Melbourne and a very small proportion of Melbournites at that.

 

[swingpass]

Except that there are and have been teams in Geelong, Bendigo, Ballarat, Sale and Morwell for many years. There may be more as far as i know. Compared to
AFL and Soccer, rugby is a niche sport everwhere in Oz, including the ACT

 

[Slim 293]

Except that there are and have been teams in Geelong, Bendigo, Ballarat, Sale and Morwell for many years. There may be more as far as i know. Compared to
AFL and Soccer, rugby is a niche sport everwhere in Oz, including the ACT

Nah, rugby has largely been the premier football code in the ACT for the past 20+ years.........

But even before the Brumbies the ACT was a 'rugby' town whether it be league or union.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

I don't disagree with your conclusion MST, but I do wonder where in Victoria would the description of the region being deeply entrenched in AFL not apply? As far as I can see, rugby in Victoria is really confined to Melbourne and a very small proportion of Melbournites at that.

McDonald sell millions of hamburgers every day. It doesn’t mean they are any good.

 

[mst]

I don't disagree with your conclusion MST, but I do wonder where in Victoria would the description of the region being deeply entrenched in AFL not apply? As far as I can see, rugby in Victoria is really confined to Melbourne and a very small proportion of Melbournites at that.

The border (NSW) areas do tend to be open to other sports like rugby due to exposure to the "other" game through proximity.

The other regions are on the outer fringe of Melbourne which going back 20yrs were AFL heartland. With the expansion of Melbourne these areas are essentially suburbs of Melbourne which now facilitate more diversity including in sports opening up opportunity.

The key issue is that the rural communities generally are tight knit and AFL is almost akin to a mix of religion and a business enterprise that provides an identity for some towns.

Its not hard to look at the NRL with its big war chest full of $$$ or even the ABL before the MLB its cut ties. They confined their primary marketing to the greater Melbourne area even though there are some teams and competitions in the country regions.

There is no ROI from the country regions for rugby. What benefits do you derive from people who are unlikely to do any more than have a look at an occasional game on TV as they live several hours away?

In Melbourne and surrounds, the population is notorious for going and watching any sports that is being played. Why would you invest time or money outside of this catchment area?

I think Rugby, and in this case the Rebels need to decide if they are a commercial venture looking for support for a team, or a group of missionaries on a crusade to spread the "rugby" gospel to those in distant parts.

 

[mst]

So they should all just focus on one thing and nothing else? Bravo, that would get us far!

I believe that the issues that stem from not having a major sponsor recently is of key relevance to the events that have lead to where we are today including this conversation.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Melbourne is always going to be very difficult to establish a half reasonable following.

Look at the Storm in NRL. Probably the most successful team for 10 years and their following is still relatively small.

How do you grow rugby in Victoria to any meaningful level? Just about impossible methinks.

 

[TOCC]

I believe that the issues that stem from not having a major sponsor recently is of key relevance to the events that have lead to where we are today including this conversation.

Taking future trial games to Ballarat as a means of expanding the grass roots of rugby in Victoria and searching for a new sponsor aren't mutually exclusive events. Regional Councils are likely to fund trial games and throw other means of funding towards the codes then the major cities. Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane gain little by hosting a Super Rugby pre-season trial match, regional areas are able to leverage the opportunity better relative to the scale of events in the regions social calendar.

There is reason for being critical of the Rebels lack of sponsor, as I have being... But taking aim at an agreement like this is is misplaced IMO.

 

[James Pettifer]

Melbourne is always going to be very difficult to establish a half reasonable following.

Look at the Storm in NRL. Probably the most successful team for 10 years and their following is still relatively small.

Second highest average crowd in the NRL other than the Broncos isn't doing too badly
How do you grow rugby in Victoria to any meaningful level? Just about impossible methinks.

What do you count as meaningful? Crowds for the Rebels are obviously lower than the Red and Tahs but not really that much lower given the shit performances and the much greater support for rugby union in those areas. The team is producing Wallabies (Koriobete, Hodge, Sefa, Uelese, McMahon). Victoria is producing Wallabies (Uelese, Lealiifano, Ioane, Johansson, Tapuai, Fitter)

 

[jimmydubs]

What do you count as meaningful?

A level where the Rebels can break even.

 

[James Pettifer]

A level where the Rebels can break even.

Does that apply to all clubs or just the Rebels because I think you would find some pretty big sporting clubs across pretty much all sports that don't break even (e.g. most NRL clubs, about half of the English Premium League, most of the French rugby clubs and the Queensland Reds) but I'm sure that you'll find some reason that the Rebels are different ...

 

[Scrubber2050]

What do you count as meaningful? Crowds for the Rebels are obviously lower than the Red and Tahs but not really that much lower given the shit performances and the much greater support for rugby union in those areas. The team is producing Wallabies (Koriobete, Hodge, Sefa, Uelese, McMahon). Victoria is producing Wallabies (Uelese, Lealiifano, Ioane, Johansson, Tapuai, Fitter)

Most of those guys learnt their rugby skills elsewhere. I suppose the point of difference between the Tahs and Reds and the Rebels is that there are many rugby fans in the north (of the Victorian border) who support their teams on mass during a winning run. Suppose that says something about "fair weather fans" but we (Reds and Tahs) have plenty of them waiting for the resurgence that will come one day. I am not being critical of Rebel supporters. I congratulate them in supporting their boys in the toughest, most competitive sporting market anywhere.

 

[Rebels3]

Some people just live in a critical bubble.

 

[mst]

Taking future trial games to Ballarat as a means of expanding the grass roots of rugby in Victoria and searching for a new sponsor aren't mutually exclusive events. Regional Councils are likely to fund trial games and throw other means of funding towards the codes then the major cities. Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane gain little by hosting a Super Rugby pre-season trial match, regional areas are able to leverage the opportunity better relative to the scale of events in the regions social calendar.

There is reason for being critical of the Rebels lack of sponsor, as I have being. But taking aim at an agreement like this is is misplaced IMO.

In general I would usually agree with what you are saying. Regional councils may fund trial games, but its unlikely to be a rugby trial game in that area. Regardless, this is not about state or local, regional government funding.

We are talking about an agreement with an all male senior levels exclusive private boarding school. A school that has an impressive and well established sports program that is primarily focused on AFL and has produced in excess of 30 AFL players. It is one of its key marketing points to attracts students.

But all that is mere distraction to the fact that the pre-season camp would be while its unlikely any students would be in attendance as it would be during the school holiday period. So, what benefit does it provided?

We are also not talking about a new team rather a team that has been in that region for around 8 years and is still in its infancy in trying to get a sufficient foot hold in the market to be able to become independently financially sustainable.

This announcement of a pre-season camp activity appears to be more about trying to make an announcement about something to give the impression that things are still moving forward rather of being of any substance.

Simply put, its not a community interaction activity, just a pre-season training camp venue.

 

[stoff]

A level where the Rebels can break even.

The Ballarat deals would almost certainly help to achieve this. I would expect the city of Ballarat would be paying for the NRC game as part of their push to establish their sports precinct around Mars stadium. The St Pats deal would most likely provide them a place that is near enough to free accomodation and facilities for their training camp.


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[TOCC]

In general I would usually agree with what you are saying. Regional councils may fund trial games, but its unlikely to be a rugby trial game in that area. Regardless, this is not about state or local, regional government funding.

We are talking about an agreement with an all male senior levels exclusive private boarding school. A school that has an impressive and well established sports program that is primarily focused on AFL and has produced in excess of 30 AFL players. It is one of its key marketing points to attracts students.

But all that is mere distraction to the fact that the pre-season camp would be while its unlikely any students would be in attendance as it would be during the school holiday period. So, what benefit does it provided?

Simply put, its not a community interaction activity, just a pre-season training camp venue.

Fair point about it being pre-season and likely school holidays, but the agreement is also with Victorian Country Rugby Union, not just St Pats and includes taking a NRC game to Ballarat and running coaching clinics in Ballarat throughout the year.

For the reasons you highlighted about this being a strong sport driven school, it sounds like a positive step. I know if an AFL team we’re doing the same at one of the traditional rugby schools in QLD/NSW there would be raised eyebrows in the rugby ranks.

I really don’t see this agreement being a negative one, and perhaps it is an article for the sake of an article, but that’s not really a bad thing.