Rebels 2018

[RugbyReg]

This may be more Rebels 2019 but according to http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/.../rugby-rumours-transfer-news-saracens-1072412

According to the Rugby Paper Worcester Warriors have settled on Australian Jono Lance as their fly-half for next season.

Lance, 27, joined the club on a short term deal in October from Super Rugby side Western Force however he broke his hand last month during a key win against London Irish.

With the Western Force losing their Super Rugby licence this season Lance has signed for the Melbourne Rebels for the upcoming season which is due to kick off on February 23, with an Australian derby against the Queensland Reds.

However the Blindside reports the Warriors have “pulled the plug” on a deal to sign a fly-half currently playing in the Aviva Premiership in favour of signing the Australian next season.

 

[Rebels3]

Nice research Reg.

I'd almost say if hes going to sign the deal i wouldn't be against him moving to the Reds this year and allow Jack Deb to take the reigns.

We really need at a minimum one of Stewart, McGregor, Mason or Debreczini to take it to the next level this year

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

This may be more Rebels 2019 but according to http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/.../rugby-rumours-transfer-news-saracens-1072412

According to the Rugby Paper Worcester Warriors have settled on Australian Jono Lance as their fly-half for next season.

Lance, 27, joined the club on a short term deal in October from Super Rugby side Western Force however he broke his hand last month during a key win against London Irish.

With the Western Force losing their Super Rugby licence this season Lance has signed for the Melbourne Rebels for the upcoming season which is due to kick off on February 23, with an Australian derby against the Queensland Reds.

However the Blindside reports the Warriors have “pulled the plug” on a deal to sign a fly-half currently playing in the Aviva Premiership in favour of signing the Australian next season.

Interested to know if there is an out if the Rebels are successful and he gets into the test team. He might have a change of heart

 

[Killer]

James, I agree that not all of the mentioned Rebels would have moved to Perth had the decision gone the other way. I would have expected someone like Hodge to have moved back to Sydney if the opportunity was there. But on balance, I think the losses in the Force roster are more significant than the losses to the amalgamated side would have been had the Rebels been chopped. Nothing more than my opinion, but that is the way I see it.

The fallacy as I see it about the size of Melbourne is that while it is the bridesmaid of Australian cities in terms of size, the absolute number of rugby supporters in the city doesn't fill me with confidence that rugby will ever be sustainable there. On the other hand, I think that only one of the franchises last year actually had growth in crowd numbers year on year, and that was the Force if I'm not mistaken.

As far as Canberra is concerned, the crowds have been disappointing for a number of years, but in spite of that, the club posted a small profit in 2017, would have had a reasonable profit in 2016 had there not been an expensive sacking that year, and is likely to improve its bottom line again this year. Longer term, it is the ability to run the ship at a profit that will measure the success or otherwise of each of the clubs.

Looking at the history of the Rebels, I have no confidence that they will turn their ship around to achieve a profit given the combination of high wages bill, high administrative overheads and disappointing crowds. I was confident the Force would continue to survive and flourish especially with the backing of Andrew Forrest.

In essence, I am saying that I think Australian rugby would be in a better place had the decision been the other way round.

In support of your comments BRunner. Perth has 14500 registered rugby players, that is those that are members of a club and turn up every Sat to play. Not those that have had a rugby experience at school for 2hrs. Melb has just 4500 registered rugby players after being in the Super comp for 7 years. The only good thing about the RA culling of the Force is that Perth is a genuine rugby area. Rugby will always survive here because there are many passionate fans and players. BTW, before the Force existed Perth had 6000 registered rugby players, far more as I said than Melb now after 7 yrs in the comp. If Melb had been culled rugby would probably be finished in Vic. I doubt it will survive in any meaningful way anyway. A question on the Storm, I know their crowds have been good but are they profitable yet and what does the near future hold re financial support or the removing of it?

 

[GoMelbRebels]

In support of your comments BRunner. Perth has 14500 registered rugby players, that is those that are members of a club and turn up every Sat to play. Not those that have had a rugby experience at school for 2hrs. Melb has just 4500 registered rugby players after being in the Super comp for 7 years. The only good thing about the RA culling of the Force is that Perth is a genuine rugby area. Rugby will always survive here because there are many passionate fans and players. BTW, before the Force existed Perth had 6000 registered rugby players, far more as I said than Melb now after 7 yrs in the comp. If Melb had been culled rugby would probably be finished in Vic. I doubt it will survive in any meaningful way anyway. A question on the Storm, I know their crowds have been good but are they profitable yet and what does the near future hold re financial support or the removing of it?

My, you talk a load of WA shit! Rugby may be smaller in participation numbers in Vic (I’m not even going to argue that), but Rugby has been around in Vic for years (hells, my Quins have been here since 1928!) and will remain so, Rebels or not.

 

[James Pettifer]

In support of your comments BRunner. Perth has 14500 registered rugby players, that is those that are members of a club and turn up every Sat to play. Not those that have had a rugby experience at school for 2hrs. Melb has just 4500 registered rugby players after being in the Super comp for 7 years. The only good thing about the RA culling of the Force is that Perth is a genuine rugby area. Rugby will always survive here because there are many passionate fans and players. BTW, before the Force existed Perth had 6000 registered rugby players, far more as I said than Melb now after 7 yrs in the comp. If Melb had been culled rugby would probably be finished in Vic. I doubt it will survive in any meaningful way anyway. A question on the Storm, I know their crowds have been good but are they profitable yet and what does the near future hold re financial support or the removing of it?

Glad to hear that Rugby is strong in WA and I hope that it continues strong until RA come to their senses and work out how to have a WA team in whatever competition we end up with. I don't think that Rugby would die in Melbourne - it would just continue under the radar producing players every so often. I know that the WA people talk about the passionate fans but really they aren't any more passionate than anywhere else - it's not like they were were getting double the crowds of Melbourne in a (relatively) strong performing year for the Force.

In terms of Storm profitability, all I can see is that they were either "about to break even" or be "on the verge of profitability" in 2016 and that 2017 was supposed to be better.

 

[James Pettifer]

Interested to know if there is an out if the Rebels are successful and he gets into the test team. He might have a change of heart

Ah, we should just let him go. Most of the team is around for 2018/19 and no one wants to change fly half after a year.

 

[Rebels3]

So you are saying Perth could sustain 630 teams of squads with 23 players across 18 different divisions of 35 teams. The math for you is 14500/23 players = 630 teams/18 divisions (one for u6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,Colts, Seniors 1,2,3,4)= 35 teams

As for the Storm they are middle of the range in terms of Nrl teams profit/loss (or should i just say 95% loss). Generally most teams barring the Broncos will make a loss, as teams are treated as loss leaders to generate profit for the overarching entity which is the NRL, who then passes on money to these clubs to stay afloat.

Please stop flogging a dead horse and let us be, we ALL understand the injustice that was practiced at the Forces expense but it's been done. Throwing about figures you cant confidently quote or use in a guaranteed defined context just makes you come across like a jilted lover.

Please put this chat in the many WA based threads on this website.

 

[stoff]

In support of your comments BRunner. Perth has 14500 registered rugby players, that is those that are members of a club and turn up every Sat to play. Not those that have had a rugby experience at school for 2hrs. Melb has just 4500 registered rugby players after being in the Super comp for 7 years. The only good thing about the RA culling of the Force is that Perth is a genuine rugby area. Rugby will always survive here because there are many passionate fans and players. BTW, before the Force existed Perth had 6000 registered rugby players, far more as I said than Melb now after 7 yrs in the comp. If Melb had been culled rugby would probably be finished in Vic. I doubt it will survive in any meaningful way anyway. A question on the Storm, I know their crowds have been good but are they profitable yet and what does the near future hold re financial support or the removing of it?

Talk about a case of quantity over quality. Super team for that long and you only produced wallaby #2 a couple of years ago.


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[amirite]

So you are saying Perth could sustain 630 teams of squads with 23 players across 18 different divisions of 35 teams. The math for you is 14500/23 players = 630 teams/18 divisions (one for u6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,Colts, Seniors 1,2,3,4)= 35 teams

Haha, spot on. Even if you add 6 grades for school and 3 grades for country footy (generous, but probably not far off) it's still 23 teams per division (and that's ignoring that it actually takes more than 23 people to run a team with injuries, availability, etc.).

23 teams per division is roughly 3 times the amount of actual teams per division. 14500 divided by 3 is 4800 (pretty much the quoted Vic number of 4500).

Now, I'm not dumb enough to say this math is perfect, but it's certainly not exaggerated or ridiculous. Anyone throwing around numbers should put some thought to them.

 

[Killer]

You sharks love it when you think you can smell blood in the water.
Can't you have more than one team in each age group in Vic?
What about women, are they allowed to play there?
BTW The Force had crowds of 35K +, 12yrs ago, the rugby community is big over here.
WA is the 3rd largest player group in Oz behind NSW and Qld.
2012 figures said The ACT had 10.12% of all players, therefore WA would be easily above that figure now.
The AusPlay survey had the number of players of 15+yrs at 141,500.
Therefore using your "simple" math(s), 10% of this figure is easily the figure I stated when including 15 yr old's and under.

 

[amirite]

If you want to quote the numbers district sporting organisations cook up to get government grants, be my guest, but it's not a very educated way to do things. There's not 14.5k people running around on a Saturday in WA rugby. There's not even half that.

There's no information I can find saying the Force's crowds in their first year (12 years ago) averaged more than 28k. An impressive stat that dropped to 16k by 2011, and 9.5k by 2017. Surely they're more relevant stats about rugby community size?

The facts about WA rugby is despite good playing numbers your junior reps sides do not perform well on average and you've matched the Rebels' locally produced Wallaby quota with far more years in business (2 each).

I'm sure you've got a great rugby community, but these are development centric facts you can add with the reality that WA games get bad telly ratings because of their time slot. This is an underrated factor in you being the team that was cut that people don't talk about.

 

[fatprop]

Interested to know if there is an out if the Rebels are successful and he gets into the test team. He might have a change of heart

He is just as likely (if not more so) to be injured again

 

[oztimmay]

Lance may go, but Maddocks may be the saviour at 10. Even some comparisons to Bernie.

News that Jono Lance has requested a release from the Melbourne Rebels to return to Worcester has given even greater incentive to Rebels coach Dave Wessels to try gifted 20-year-old Jack Maddocks in the playmaker’s role at five-eighth in Super Rugby this season.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...s/news-story/44e5ef85f588820214eb7437fcc7c8ae

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Lance may go, but Maddocks may be the saviour at 10. Even some comparisons to Bernie.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...s/news-story/44e5ef85f588820214eb7437fcc7c8ae

Yeah, they said that of Jack D. Still, good to see Jack Deb back. Maybe Dave Wessels can unlock his potential.

 

[oztimmay]

Yeah, they said that of Jack D. Still, good to see Jack Deb back. Maybe Dave Wessels can unlock his potential.

True. Jack didn’t do a Wallabies tour tho, and daily access to someone who did it successfully.

I see it as just building option for 10/15 as we had problems there in 2017 (10 esp.)


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[TOCC]

Maddocks at flyhalf? That’s a massive ask of a young bloke who has no real history at playing flyhalf.

It’s incredible that for all the amazing depth the Rebels have they are so short of options at flyhalf.

Although with all the quality around him, they really only need someone to underplay their hand and let the others around them create the magic.


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[Rebels3]

I'm still convinced that they should give DHP a run there. Saw him fill in last season for the last 30mins of a Force game after injuries and he was very good. He can kick, got a good passing game but most importantly he has so much time. Prob the one guy in the Aus team that looks like hes in slow motion more than any other. Plus he can defend and stay back on the high ball. Having him and another natural fullback back on the kicks would make teams seriously think about their kicking game against us.

 

[swingpass]

The Rebels have many options at10. adams, lance, horwitz and debreczini. Cannot see Maddocks as a 10. Doesnt look or move like one. Larkham is an absolute exception.

 

[KevinO]

I like Maddocks, I think his to great of a talent to have sitting on the bench for 60 minutes so if he can pull off the switch his the closest thing Australia has to a Beauden Barrett style player at the moment.

As long as Cheika sticks with Foley for June so Ireland can win 3-0.