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Rebels 2013

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Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Mitchel is a hard worked but has a serious case of plant foot (he plants his feet in D).

Forwards can get away with it at times but backs sure as hell can't.
Yep. It's a serious problem because he does it whether he plays on the wing or in the centres. It's pretty clear Inman doesn't trust him in defence either. Came back inside to help Mitchell out, rather than just stay out on his man, more than once. 12 is a huge, huge, problem for us.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
agree. mitchell was stronger last year but has fallen off a bit. when and if both beale and JOC (James O'Connor) come back, i really would like to see beale to JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 and 12.
alternatively i think english could be a good fit.
eitherway, i would prefer if we stopped recruting loose forwards and did something about 12/13 (by this i mean we could recruit another 13 and play inman at 12 where i think he would go equally as well)
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
He's just not a very good player. He tries hard, and gets the most out of his talent - but really he's a bench player at best. I have no idea about English at 12. Has he ever played there before?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Yeah, I've never made a secret that we never hired a decent 12.

JOC (James O'Connor) could play there at test level very well, but Hill has made it clear at Super rugby level he wants him where he will have more control over the shape of the game at 10 or 15.

Sidey and Mitchell are both journeymen utilities and are decent as back-ups and would make most 22s but they're not starting 12s.

People talk about our needs for better front rowers and they may be right, but the reality is our number 1 need is for a good 12. There's probably 5 starting quality Super rugby 12s mulling around Aus super rugby right now and none play for us.
 

oztimmay

Tony Shaw (54)
Staff member
it will be heggarty, roberts (god please no) or beale. I don't think woodward will move that close. beale not injured so i expect him to be back. hill needs him.

Think Gus isn't a chance this week on account of the collarbone. Bryce might be a shot, but my money is on KB (Kurtley Beale). I agree with you that Hill needs him.

On Woodward I would like to see him make 15 his own. Chances are we are going to lose one of the wonder twins north next year and we will need someone to wear that 15. I think he could be a good chance to do that.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Elstadt and Vermeulen out.
That's good news.

I'd like to see Jones start and mark Etzebeth. They've both got plenty of starch and enjoy the physicality, would be an explosive contest.

I think Beale will play 10. Can Heggarty throw a spiral pass? Looked like all of his efforts were fat league passes.
 

oztimmay

Tony Shaw (54)
Staff member
I'd like to see Jones start and mark Etzebeth. They've both got plenty of starch and enjoy the physicality, would be an explosive contest.
.

Agree with you on this. Jones has been cooling his heels on the bench for the last few weeks and he'd be keen as mustard to get a starting spot. Those two would be at it like young bulls, nothing would be left in the tank after that. dunno if you'd start Jones and give Pyle a rest; I think he's started every match this year? Like Ged, he's be playing brilliant footy all year and would be tough to rotate him out of the starting team.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
It might've been my perspective from the stands but against the Brumbies it looked like Hill instructed Jones to tag Auelua. He never shirked a tackle and looked like he loved the contest.
 

199madmave

Ward Prentice (10)
Both Eddie Ahololei and Pat Leafa had excellent games for Manly Marlins on Saturday - each scored a try. I would love to see them on the bench for Friday's game against the Stormers...Pat should be the reserve hooker for the Rebels!!
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I don't think I've ever seen an elite rugby team that would so obviously benefit from a much better coaching team (not just head coach, but back/attack and forwards etc) than the 2012/13 Rebels.

You don't get rich dining out on impressive excuses: 'sick of losing', 'getting so many close results vs good teams', 'just a few small player mistakes costing us dearly', 'not quite playing the whole 80 yet', etc. The Rebels w/l % appears in their third year almost as bad as it's ever been. Just not good enough frankly after three years of considerable investment. And average crowds of c.11,000 will send the place broke over time.

Get yourselves a Jim Carmichael-like quality CEO by end 2013 (making him or her the 4th in 3 years!), and ditto a world-class provincial coach with a demonstrated record of success at these levels, and you have the playing resources (with some additional recruitment) to really have a crack in 2014 at a top 6 S15 position, or maybe top 8 first (a la 2010 Reds and 2012 Brumbies), then top 6 in 2015.
 

Hell West & Crooked

Alex Ross (28)
I don't think I've ever seen a team that would so obviously benefit from a much better coaching team (not just head coach, but back/attack and forwards etc) than the 2012/13 Rebels.

You don't get rich dining out on impressive excuses: 'sick of losing', 'getting so many close results vs good teams', 'just a few small player mistakes costing us dearly', 'no quite playing the whole 80 yet', etc. The Rebels w/l % appears in their third year almost as bad as it's ever been. Just not good enough frankly after three years of considerable investment. And average crowds of c.11,000 will send the place broke over time.

Get yourselves a Jim Carmichael-like quality CEO by end 2013 (making him or her the 4th in 3 years!), and ditto a world-class provincial coach with a demonstrated record of success at these levels, and you have the playing resources (with some additional recruitment) to really have a crack in 2014 at a top 6 S15 position, or maybe top 8 first (a la 2010 Reds and 2012 Brumbies), then top 6 in 2015.

True... but then the Wallabies got away with these same excuses for the entire Conolly-Jones Era...

It amy not end for the Rebels as soon as it should - but you are right - whilst ever Johnno is coaching outside Australia, the 5 Oz Super 15 Clubs do not have all their best coaches on deck.
 
D

daz

Guest
I don't think I've ever seen an elite rugby team that would so obviously benefit from a much better coaching team (not just head coach, but back/attack and forwards etc) than the 2012/13 Rebels.

You don't get rich dining out on impressive excuses: 'sick of losing', 'getting so many close results vs good teams', 'just a few small player mistakes costing us dearly', 'not quite playing the whole 80 yet', etc. The Rebels w/l % appears in their third year almost as bad as it's ever been. Just not good enough frankly after three years of considerable investment. And average crowds of c.11,000 will send the place broke over time.

Get yourselves a Jim Carmichael-like quality CEO by end 2013 (making him or her the 4th in 3 years!), and ditto a world-class provincial coach with a demonstrated record of success at these levels, and you have the playing resources (with some additional recruitment) to really have a crack in 2014 at a top 6 S15 position, or maybe top 8 first (a la 2010 Reds and 2012 Brumbies), then top 6 in 2015.

I agree with everything you have said here RH. A bit condescending, but pretty well right.

Here comes the but.

But, I don't think the Rebels are on their Pat Malone for being an under-achieving Oz province. After 7 years the Force are still locked on the bottom of the Oz conference. The Reds (while recently finally achieving the pinnacle in the modern game) couldn't win a chook raffle not so long ago. Ditto the Brumbies. And the Tahs are the very definition of doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Note that the Reds and the Tahs have had access to some pretty decent players at the same time they couldn't win.

My point is that "baby steps of improvement" or "one step forward, two steps back" in Oz rugby is the rule, not the exception. Look how long it took the Reds to get the right structure in place and win a title. A hell of a lot longer than 3 years.

I'm not defending the Rebels; I am firmly in the camp that says that a rookie team cannot have a rookie coach. Hill has good vision, but in a non-rugby heartland battling for dollars, the people need a winning team to hitch their wagon to. And frankly, Hill himself said pre-season that the time for using the "new boys" excuse was over.

But let's remember that even the Tahs can't get it right and they are (arguably) the epi-centre of Oz rugby.

Can we learn from the Reds experience? Sure. But I don't think it is quite as simple as "one size fits all" when it comes to managing a sporting franchise. By your logic, we should send Link to Melbourne. You wouldn't mind that, would you? For the greater good?

BTW, what were the Reds and Tahs average crowds when they were rock bottom? Did the ARU have to provide any financial assistance at all to one of those teams to keep them viable?

Just remember, you have first hand experience of a poorly performing team (both on and off field) as well, so take a moment to remember what that tasted like.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
Don't know if it's just me or do we seem to have nearly every try scored in the same corner against us?

World Class kicker would be great to, sign Harris to cover 10 and 12 and take the place kicks and we would be winning these tight games. Woodward's kicking in the ITM was really good, just seems like he has lost the confidence when he is kicking now.
 
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