Rebels 2013

[Athilnaur]

I watched Jones play vs Tahs this year at the stadium and was staggered at his ability to inject himself. Then he copped an injury at the worst time in the season. Neville and Pyle have been good discoveries, but for me Jones is just as much of a find for us, and probably the Wallabies too in time.

 

[swingpass]

agree about jones and future, but higginbotham, delve and saffy best backrow in my opinion at present
just noticed that blake and johanssen officially gone from rebels player list
now there are 20! plus the newbies 6 or 7 ?
still a few to fill in

 

[Dumbledore]

I watched Jones play vs Tahs this year at the stadium and was staggered at his ability to inject himself. Then he copped an injury at the worst time in the season. Neville and Pyle have been good discoveries, but for me Jones is just as much of a find for us, and probably the Wallabies too in time.

All of this. He carried us in a couple of games this year. Absolutely monumental in that game when we got completely bitchslapped by the Brumbies, was one of the best games by any Australian player all year. Staggers me when people don't want him in the team.

 

[en_force_er]

I don't get it. Phipps was a major part of winning an international test match for the Wallabies against the 6th best team in the world (by quality) only a week and a half ago.

Why is Strizaker better just because he rips up the Shute Shield? Even if they are exactly equal on talent (which they may be) you'd go for Phipps' experience every time.

Why all the Phipps hate? I like Strizaker as a prospect too but Phipps is currently in the top 3 halfbacks in the country pretty much without question and some might argue the 2nd best.

 

[en_force_er]

agree about jones and future, but higginbotham, delve and saffy best backrow in my opinion at present
just noticed that blake and johanssen officially gone from rebels player list
now there are 20! plus the newbies 6 or 7 ?
still a few to fill in

Agree but Jones will start most games, he covers the full back 5 of the forwards and in most games at least 1 of those guys will be broken.

On another subject I don't like that we dropped Jono Owen, he was massive for us in a couple of games this year and I really enjoyed watching him play. Where's he off to?

 

[Dumbledore]

I don't get it. Phipps was a major part of winning an international test match for the Wallabies against the 6th best team in the world (by quality) only a week and a half ago.

Why is Strizaker better just because he rips up the Shute Shield? Even if they are exactly equal on talent (which they may be) you'd go for Phipps' experience every time.

Why all the Phipps hate? I like Strizaker as a prospect too but Phipps is currently in the top 3 halfbacks in the country pretty much without question and some might argue the 2nd best.

Can't speak for everyone but I just don't think they're equal on talent. I think Stirzaker gets to the breakdown quicker, takes better options when he gets there, has an equally good running game and a much better pass. He's not quite as big yet, and possibly not as active in defence - but the flipside to that is he doesn't miss nearly as many tackles. Phipps is just okay for mine. He's got an alright pass, a good but predictable running game, an average kicking game, takes decent options etc. but he hasn't really kicked on. I've never seen him change a game or really own one. I talked about it earlier in this thread, but see if you can get your hands on a copy of the Rebels-Stormers game from earlier this year. The entire Rebels backline sparks up when Stirzaker comes on.

As for Owen, he was found out against the big boys I think, had a nightmare in that Stormers game for one.

 

[kronic]

Phipps & Beale to be the halves combo for the Wobbles this weekend, should be interesting. Last time these two played in that combination against the Bulls, we almost caused an upset.

 

[kronic]

The backrow is one of the biggest question marks in 2013. I'll lose sleep over this shit.

 

[KevinO]

Can't speak for everyone but I just don't think they're equal on talent. I think Stirzaker gets to the breakdown quicker, takes better options when he gets there, has an equally good running game and a much better pass. He's not quite as big yet, and possibly not as active in defence - but the flipside to that is he doesn't miss nearly as many tackles. Phipps is just okay for mine. He's got an alright pass, a good but predictable running game, an average kicking game, takes decent options etc. but he hasn't really kicked on. I've never seen him change a game or really own one. I talked about it earlier in this thread, but see if you can get your hands on a copy of the Rebels-Stormers game from earlier this year. The entire Rebels backline sparks up when Stirzaker comes on.

As for Owen, he was found out against the big boys I think, had a nightmare in that Stormers game for one.

Two trys against the Crusaders comes to mind on a game changing if not career changing moment for Phipps. Not to many players in Super rugby score two try's against these guys. He took on the forwards for the first try and somehow came out the other side. Stirzaker is a good prospect for the future, but at the moment Phipps has him covered.

Agree but Jones will start most games, he covers the full back 5 of the forwards and in most games at least 1 of those guys will be broken.

On another subject I don't like that we dropped Jono Owen, he was massive for us in a couple of games this year and I really enjoyed watching him play. Where's he off to?

Agree Jones is good cover for the back five, but I can't see how you would choose to start him ahead of any of Pyle, Neville, Saffy, Higgers or Delve. Plus we no body has even mentioned Scott Fuglistaller who is a specialist open side who played for New Zealand under ages and was used by the Highlanders last season and is very highly rated.

Agree that Jono Owen deserved a contract, helped a lot last season. Assuming Hugh Perret was not offered a contract either?

agree about jones and future, but higginbotham, delve and saffy best backrow in my opinion at present
just noticed that blake and johanssen officially gone from rebels player list
now there are 20! plus the newbies 6 or 7 ?
still a few to fill in

Not surprised that Johanssen was not given a second year, was more signed for the media having a Victorian in the squad than current ability to play Super Rugby. Not sure why Blake would have been let go?

 

[en_force_er]

Can't speak for everyone but I just don't think they're equal on talent. I think Stirzaker gets to the breakdown quicker, takes better options when he gets there, has an equally good running game and a much better pass. He's not quite as big yet, and possibly not as active in defence - but the flipside to that is he doesn't miss nearly as many tackles. Phipps is just okay for mine. He's got an alright pass, a good but predictable running game, an average kicking game, takes decent options etc. but he hasn't really kicked on. I've never seen him change a game or really own one. I talked about it earlier in this thread, but see if you can get your hands on a copy of the Rebels-Stormers game from earlier this year. The entire Rebels backline sparks up when Stirzaker comes on.

As for Owen, he was found out against the big boys I think, had a nightmare in that Stormers game for one.

Phipps is one of the best and loudest organisers in Super Rugby. You can hear him from almost anywhere in the stadium. He is also one of the fittest which is reflected by how often he get's himself into position to make a tackle in defence (which he obviously either has to work on or the Rebs need to change their defensive system). Both of these are underrated skills.

With Owen I feel like he had very bad and very good games and was worth persisting with. Shame.

Agree Jones is good cover for the back five, but I can't see how you would choose to start him ahead of any of Pyle, Neville, Saffy, Higgers or Delve. Plus we no body has even mentioned Scott Fuglistaller who is a specialist open side who played for New Zealand under ages and was used by the Highlanders last season and is very highly rated.

Not surprised that Johanssen was not given a second year, was more signed for the media having a Victorian in the squad than current ability to play Super Rugby. Not sure why Blake would have been let go?

Fuglistaller had a couple of games off the bench for a highlanders team that had almost as many injuries at 7 as the Rebels. I've made a special effort to watch the Wellington ITM Cup games and he's certainly good at that level but Tom Chamberland absolutely destroyed that level of rugby and he never really impressed in Super Rugby.

As for Johanssen, he was cheap as. For starters the Rebs didn't have to pay for a place to him to stay in like some of the other players. They took a punt and it didn't pay off.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Not using this year, I will use every year. Ireland have never beaten the All Blacks, even with O'Driscoll, O'Connell, O'Gara, Stringer, Darcy all in there 20's they did not pull it off.

mortlock/Giteau combo? Really, I love Mortlock's style of play. But name the trophy this combo ever helped the Wallabies win?

Mate your off your head if you think trophies won is defines how good a centre combination is Irelands pairing of d'Arcy & O'Driscoll was the best in europe and won of the best in the world for years. O'Driscoll would have been in The world XV for a decade.....you can't write him and d'Arcy off because he haven't beaten the best team in the world. XV players on the park my man. If it was as simple as just fielding a good centre pairing Australia would have won alot more shit.

I don't mean to be rude but O'Gara, Stringer, O'Connell and d'Arcy wouldnt have been in the top 3 players in there position in 5-7 years ago.

Giteau & Mortlock beat Island every year..........but i wouldn't say they were better.

 

[Dumbledore]

Two trys against the Crusaders comes to mind on a game changing if not career changing moment for Phipps. Not to many players in Super rugby score two try's against these guys. He took on the forwards for the first try and somehow came out the other side. Stirzaker is a good prospect for the future, but at the moment Phipps has him covered.

Ahh come on now. The first of those two tries was off a dart about a meter from the line where Wyatt Crockett, from memory, pretty much waved him through. The second was him running a good support line off a Gerrard linebreak. That was the game that got people really talking about Beale playing flyhalf for the Wallabies, he was dominant.

Phipps is one of the best and loudest organisers in Super Rugby. You can hear him from almost anywhere in the stadium. He is also one of the fittest which is reflected by how often he get's himself into position to make a tackle in defence (which he obviously either has to work on or the Rebs need to change their defensive system). Both of these are underrated skills.

That I'll give you. He does get himself in position to make a lot of tackles, he just misses way too many when he gets there. You're right, something has to change about it next year - it's giving away too much currently. As for the organising, I thought it was mainly Inman who seemed to be calling things, but am happy to defer to your superior knowledge.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I don't get it. Phipps was a major part of winning an international test match for the Wallabies against the 6th best team in the world (by quality) only a week and a half ago.

Why is Strizaker better just because he rips up the Shute Shield? Even if they are exactly equal on talent (which they may be) you'd go for Phipps' experience every time.

Why all the Phipps hate? I like Strizaker as a prospect too but Phipps is currently in the top 3 halfbacks in the country pretty much without question and some might argue the 2nd best.

Besides setting up that try he didnt really do much at all cooper stepped in for him several times to keep momentum rollign and i had no idea what the fuck the go to pass one way and spin around to hit the other was about.

I think its very debatable abotu Phipps being the second best in the country.......

Stirzaker was very good in shute shield but also in his rebels appearances.........its not that Stirzaker is the best choice right now but if he progresses at the rate he has since schoolboys he will surpass phipps easily.

p.s Phipps this year for the rebels was a bit of a ball bag tryign niggle to much cut this out and i will like him more

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Besides setting up that try he didnt really do much at all cooper stepped in for him several times to keep momentum rollign and i had no idea what the fuck the go to pass one way and spin around to hit the other was about.

I think its very debatable abotu Phipps being the second best in the country...

Stirzaker was very good in shute shield but also in his rebels appearances...its not that Stirzaker is the best choice right now but if he progresses at the rate he has since schoolboys he will surpass phipps easily.

p.s Phipps this year for the rebels was a bit of a ball bag tryign niggle to much cut this out and i will like him more

I think it was actually him trying to keep the play moving. He went to pass it out to the backs but cooper didn’t want it and switch around the forwards. I don’t mind it as Genia would have left it in the ruck for an age and then point to where he wanted to forward and then pass. if you are on a role then keep it going.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I think it was actually him trying to keep the play moving. He went to pass it out to the backs but cooper didn’t want it and switch around the forwards. I don’t mind it as Genia would have left it in the ruck for an age and then point to where he wanted to forward and then pass. if you are on a role then keep it going.

........that spiel doesnt make me feel any better about him

 

[Rob]

Not sure why Blake would have been let go?[/quote]

Because he is a terrible scrummager. Pick any game last year and watch him closely at scrum time. Unfortunately it doesnt appear that rebels have got anyone better. The young fellow they have picked specialises in walking backwards at scrum time or standing up.

 

[Dumbledore]

Because he is a terrible scrummager. Pick any game last year and watch him closely at scrum time. Unfortunately it doesnt appear that rebels have got anyone better. The young fellow they have picked specialises in walking backwards at scrum time or standing up.

Spot on. As for the young one, do you mean PAE? He hardly got any game time in fairness, and was an absolute beast at age group level. Was part of a completely dominant Australian scrum. He's still very young, might just take him some time.

 

[blues recovery]

Blake was given an opportunity to get his weight down over the next two months and show that he has the commitment required to still make it at this level. He has chosen not to do this , so the answer re commitment is clear. Good on the Rebels for putting a line in the sand re fitness levels. PAE injured his ankle in the first 2012 trial and did not get back on the field until the last game against the Stormers and performed very well when he came of the bench. He is the best young prop in the country under 23 and he will show this next year when fully fit.

 

[KevinO]

Mate your off your head if you think trophies won is defines how good a centre combination is Irelands pairing of d'Arcy & O'Driscoll was the best in europe and won of the best in the world for years. O'Driscoll would have been in The world XV for a decade...you can't write him and d'Arcy off because he haven't beaten the best team in the world. XV players on the park my man. If it was as simple as just fielding a good centre pairing Australia would have won alot more shit.

I don't mean to be rude but O'Gara, Stringer, O'Connell and d'Arcy wouldnt have been in the top 3 players in there position in 5-7 years ago.

Giteau & Mortlock beat Island every year....but i wouldn't say they were better.

First it's Ireland not Island.

O'Connell is still one of the best second rows in the world still, he would be in the top 3, after all he was the last Lions captain, Munster captain when they won the Heineken Cup in 2008. O'Gara, is the all time points scorer for the Heineken Cup with no one even close to him. O'Gara has 3 Lions tours, that's 1 more than Wilkinson and was named the Heineken Cup player of the decade for the first ten years of the Competition. The only 10 in World Rugby who was better than O'Gara 5 to 7 years ago was Carter.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

.....Ireland was an obvious typo, but good to see your starting with a strong powerful point.

I don't want to go into this to much (cause its a rebels thread) but lets start with the fact that out of four players mentioned you can place 2 arguably in the top 3 in the world in their positions 5-7 years ago so there is already one way you have helpd prove my point.

Secondly I said personal trophies doesn't equal team glory has you not mentioning o'gara's personal triumphs while at the same time professing your teams average-ness proved this?

Back to the original point. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to the team the all blacks have the cattle to play the way they do well......but the rebels dont. We shouldn't to copy a gameplan built for other players....yeh it's worked but so has play a skilful 12 and a hard running 13.

We can argue all day on successful centre pairings in history but statistics won't show much