• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

RBS 6 Nations 2013

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
The last time we played SA in SA I think the Saffas changed jerseys TBF. The only team that never seems to change are the master race but they own the shade black so they don't have to!

The Paddies played in SAf and the Bokke changed jumpers; that's my point, the home team should change, not the away team.

I think you'll find the ABs play in a white jumper with the silver fern edged in black when Scotland tour New Zealand. Yes, they do change sometimes.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
I hope you are right about Healy but I think he might get longer than that myself. His performance was symptomatic of the mental frailty of the Irish team IMHO. Why the fuck he felt the need to put in such an unnecessary cheap shot when he was completely schooling Cole is beyond me, did it betray a loss of control brought about by nerves? Does it demonstrate that he doesn't have the innate confidence in himself that his talent undoubtedly warrants? For me he is the best loose head in the world, he has owned Jones and Cole the last two weeks, and yet he felt the need to put in that malicious little stamp.

Right through the team there are players who seem to be wracked with self doubt, Best is in the top three hookers playing the game but does he have that belief in himself? Ryan made a mess of the England line out, turning Youngs the larger into a stuttering mess, but he still gives the impression he has only got the jersey because Paulie isn't there. Watching a Heaslip press conference, you get the very real sense that for all the bravura the man is no where near as self confident as outward appearances. Murray made a monkey of Phillips in Cardiff but still came into the game on sunday looking as though he couldn't quite believe he was really meant to be there.

When you add in Sexton struggling with tight hamstrings all week (and ROG being shit), BOD's mind inevitably being elsewhere after becoming a father for the first time, Zebo breaking his foot and Kearney feeling his way back from a serious back operation, there were no leaders in that Irish side on sunday and how it showed in the choking performance.

If ROG starts in Murrayfield, and barring injury he will, Ireland will lose and still the madness of his selection, he shouldn't even be starting for Munster, will continue. Hook has demonstrated that he knows nothing about the game if he thinks that someone who cannot kick snow off a fecking rope played well.

I think a lot of Irelands problem stem from a lack of belief in the game plan and the coaching ticket. Witness how gushing BOD, Sexton etc are about Joe Schmidt and compare this to any interview given regarding Kidney. This lack of belief transfers to the field and if Ireland start badly they rarely recover, players get frustrated lash out needlessly etc.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
I think a lot of Irelands problem stem from a lack of belief in the game plan and the coaching ticket. Witness how gushing BOD, Sexton etc are about Joe Schmidt and compare this to any interview given regarding Kidney. This lack of belief transfers to the field and if Ireland start badly they rarely recover, players get frustrated lash out needlessly etc.
I think it is too simplistic to pile all the blame on the coach, the same mental frailty has been in evidence ever since the advent of professionalism and I would argue is was worse under EOS. That said, Kidney has had his time, should be highly commended for managing to get the team over the line to win a GS, but it is now time to see if anyone else, preferably a foreigner can take the team to the next level.

But there has to be a rethink about the priorities for Irish rugby. Are we going to set about targeting the World cup or are we going to prioritise the six nations? I would argue that we should think very seriously about Ireland's relationship with the Lions as well, we have been absolutely hobbled by injuries picked up playing for Murdoch and to give southern hemisphere rugby a cash injection. POC, Kearney, BOD, Luke Fitzgerald, Ferris etc have all lost seasons to injury as a result of the Lions, some have had their careers shortened, and I do not think that a nation with a player pool as small as Irelands should be sending all our best players off to play for a team that has no Irish coaching representation. I do not trust Gatland, Rowntree, Edwards etc to give a flying fuck about the welfare of any Irish players who make it into the lions squad. The only Irish player I will be pleased to see in the Lions squad is Brian O'Driscoll because it is obviously hugely important to him to finish his career in a Lions jersey and he owes Irish rugby nothing, aside from that I hope there will be no other Irish lads involved.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
The Paddies played in SAf and the Bokke changed jumpers; that's my point, the home team should change, not the away team.

I think you'll find the ABs play in a white jumper with the silver fern edged in black when Scotland tour New Zealand. Yes, they do change sometimes.
I don't think I have seen NZ change in years although I am sure you would be able to furnish me with evidence to the contrary.
 

Italophile

Bill Watson (15)
Last time I recall the ABs in their change strip was the fateful game against France in the 2007 WC. Might have happened more recently.

EDIT. Ah well, Google tells me the ABs wore their white change strip -v- France in Marseilles in 2009.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
I think it is too simplistic to pile all the blame on the coach, the same mental frailty has been in evidence ever since the advent of professionalism and I would argue is was worse under EOS. That said, Kidney has had his time, should be highly commended for managing to get the team over the line to win a GS, but it is now time to see if anyone else, preferably a foreigner can take the team to the next level.

But there has to be a rethink about the priorities for Irish rugby. Are we going to set about targeting the World cup or are we going to prioritise the six nations? I would argue that we should think very seriously about Ireland's relationship with the Lions as well, we have been absolutely hobbled by injuries picked up playing for Murdoch and to give southern hemisphere rugby a cash injection. POC, Kearney, BOD, Luke Fitzgerald, Ferris etc have all lost seasons to injury as a result of the Lions, some have had their careers shortened, and I do not think that a nation with a player pool as small as Irelands should be sending all our best players off to play for a team that has no Irish coaching representation. I do not trust Gatland, Rowntree, Edwards etc to give a flying fuck about the welfare of any Irish players who make it into the lions squad. The only Irish player I will be pleased to see in the Lions squad is Brian O'Driscoll because it is obviously hugely important to him to finish his career in a Lions jersey and he owes Irish rugby nothing, aside from that I hope there will be no other Irish lads involved.

Under EOS we have a 75%ish win ratio in the 6 nations, beat Aus and Saffas a couple of times at home and ran NZ close several times. Yes there were issues with his man management but he is without a doubt Irelands best coach of all time. Under Kidney we have regressed every year (I think his win ratio is around 40% now), we have rarely beaten a side ranked above us and the players looks confused at what they are supposed to be doing on the field. We've has two record defeats to NZ, lost 3 in a row to England, 3 in a row to Wales, lost 4 in a row to France and twice to Scotland. We can't lay it all at the coaches door I agree but I think Kidney has to take a fair bit of flack for Irelands problems. He has refused to blood players in problem positions (3, 10, 12, 13) leaving us one injury away from disaster, and don't even get me started on his use of the bench.

The Irish mentality really gets to me, we have our media saying we shouldn't expect to win Grand Slams, players constantly talk themselves down, we only perform when we've been written off. England are a prime example of how a well coached, mentally strong team can perform. Given the talent at Irelands disposal there must be coaches in Europe and in SANZAR who think they could do a hell of a lot better than Deccie with the squad and would love to give it a shot. I suppose were going off topic at this stage and its a conversation for another day.

I don't think its a coincidence that France have won Grand Slams in 2002, 2006 and 2010, as much as I don't like Irish players getting injured and tiring themselves out on Lions tours I do like seeing them test themselves against the best in the world. I wouldn't cry if Ireland withdrew from the Lions but I'll be at the games in Aus this winter cheering them on.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
But
Under EOS we have a 75%ish win ratio in the 6 nations, beat Aus and Saffas a couple of times at home and ran NZ close several times. Yes there were issues with his man management but he is without a doubt Irelands best coach of all time. Under Kidney we have regressed every year (I think his win ratio is around 40% now), we have rarely beaten a side ranked above us and the players looks confused at what they are supposed to be doing on the field. We've has two record defeats to NZ, lost 3 in a row to England, 3 in a row to Wales, lost 4 in a row to France and twice to Scotland. We can't lay it all at the coaches door I agree but I think Kidney has to take a fair bit of flack for Irelands problems. He has refused to blood players in problem positions (3, 10, 12, 13) leaving us one injury away from disaster, and don't even get me started on his use of the bench.

The Irish mentality really gets to me, we have our media saying we shouldn't expect to win Grand Slams, players constantly talk themselves down, we only perform when we've been written off. England are a prime example of how a well coached, mentally strong team can perform. Given the talent at Irelands disposal there must be coaches in Europe and in SANZAR who think they could do a hell of a lot better than Deccie with the squad and would love to give it a shot. I suppose were going off topic at this stage and its a conversation for another day.

I don't think its a coincidence that France have won Grand Slams in 2002, 2006 and 2010, as much as I don't like Irish players getting injured and tiring themselves out on Lions tours I do like seeing them test themselves against the best in the world. I wouldn't cry if Ireland withdrew from the Lions but I'll be at the games in Aus this winter cheering them on.
The biggest Irish rugby fuck up in the pro era was the 2007 RWC, the greatest success was the GS. I am not absolving Kidney of blame and the decision to send Declan Fitzpatrick on with 90 seconds left was ridiculous but it is not just the coaches. Anyway, it looks like ROG is going to be starting against Scotland so that is that game gone, only thin silver lining is hopefully we will have the bare minimum of Irish lads on the Lions tour.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
I not sure what the beat up over Cian Healy is, I know he stood on Coles leg, and think there maybe a week or two in it, but Coles was nicely lifting leg to trap ball with his knee to stop it clearing. If you watch it ball comes free as soon as Healy takes action. I not condoning it (well not publicly anyway) but...... . Actually I thought perhaps he would of got jumped on for what looked like a punch he threw in ruck later, although I not sure bit connected very well.

Also on alternate strip, I think All Blacks played in White jersey against French in France 09, and know they have a few times against Scotland.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
The Irish mentality really gets to me, we have our media saying we shouldn't expect to win Grand Slams, players constantly talk themselves down, we only perform when we've been written off. England are a prime example of how a well coached, mentally strong team can perform. Given the talent at Irelands disposal there must be coaches in Europe and in SANZAR who think they could do a hell of a lot better than Deccie with the squad and would love to give it a shot. I suppose were going off topic at this stage and its a conversation for another day.

Can I recommend one of the finest international coaches God ever put breath into. Taught two of rugby's greatest ever players how to play, numerous Super trophies, gets teams to play what's in front of them, very basic gameplan so you don't have to train too hard, and certainly a better win/loss ratio. He should become available round August this year hopefully.
 

Craig Riddington

Sydney Middleton (9)
Hold on a minute, I'm starting to sense a whiff of parochial, nationalistic BS in the air. Playing three tests for the Lions has no more risk to the long-term playing future for a player than playing three tests against the AB's for your national team. I didn't hear anyone say that Ireland wasn't going to win the Grandslam this year because the whole squad was involved in a brutal tour of NZ? or that France were going to win because they only played two matches in Argentina. The reality is that if there wasn't a Lions tour, every union would be negotiating some sort of tour anyway putting there precious, professional rugby players at risk of injury. Ten international matches a year maybe too many but thats a different argument. Personally, I would be gutted if there were no Irish players in the Lions team. I can't wait to see the likes of Healy et al test out the Wallaby metal...and I desperately want to see BOD run out as captain. I am almost certain that the Irish players would be pretty passionate about representing the Lions too. After all, each and every one of them has a choice to go or not. And why shouldn't they? The Lions tour is one of the great events in sport. A team that unites; four nations coming together for a common cause. It's not a tour for the flag wavers but a tour for those who are passionate about the game. I can't wait.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Hold on a minute, I'm starting to sense a whiff of parochial, nationalistic BS in the air. Playing three tests for the Lions has no more risk to the long-term playing future for a player than playing three tests against the AB's for your national team. I didn't hear anyone say that Ireland wasn't going to win the Grandslam this year because the whole squad was involved in a brutal tour of NZ? or that France were going to win because they only played two matches in Argentina. The reality is that if there wasn't a Lions tour, every union would be negotiating some sort of tour anyway putting there precious, professional rugby players at risk of injury. Ten international matches a year maybe too many but thats a different argument. Personally, I would be gutted if there were no Irish players in the Lions team. I can't wait to see the likes of Healy et al test out the Wallaby metal.and I desperately want to see BOD run out as captain. I am almost certain that the Irish players would be pretty passionate about representing the Lions too. After all, each and every one of them has a choice to go or not. And why shouldn't they? The Lions tour is one of the great events in sport. A team that unites; four nations coming together for a common cause. It's not a tour for the flag wavers but a tour for those who are passionate about the game. I can't wait.
I was disgusted that at the end of a world cup year, when the NH players had been on the go for two years without a break, Ireland were forced by the IRB to play a three test series against NZ. That we are going to get our best players to play for another two years with little or no summer break must have the Southern hemisphere pissing themselves that we are so willing to shoot ourselves in the foot. The French will lick their lips, as always, at the prospect of the inevitable grand slam that follows every lions tour.

And as for no more risk of injury on a national tour? Quite apart from the anecdotal evidence in Ireland of Ferris, Fitzgerald, Kearney, POC, BOD etc (and that is just the last tour) How do the Lions players get on the team in the first place? They beat seven bales of shit out of each other is how, all while the medical/ conditioning staff who know them best are fast asleep in their beds 12,000 miles away. And please remind me how many games the Irish lads played outside of the three test series in NZ? Answer none!!! And how many exercises in futility will there be for the thuggish successors to the likes of McCrae to make a name for themselves on this tour? Answer, seven!!!

Gatland, Farrell, Edwards and Rowntree will not give a flying fuck about the welfare of any of the Irish lads on this tour, witness Fatland playing Lydiate with a chronic ankle injury to see how he has zero regard for player welfare. He wants the NZ job and that is all that matters. The best we can hope for is that they will be hopelessly biased and pick their own team and relations although I can guarantee they will be getting the Irish lads to do the dirty work because they always do.

I don't disagree that all the Irish lads would want to go on the tour although I wish one of them felt able to rule themselves out, if only to prove there wasn't 100% unanimity like some sort of North Korean election. But how many of the self same players would also be happy to play on with concussion even though it will shorten their playing careers? Answer all of them but they are rightly protected from themselves by management. And while we are on the subject of concussion lets discuss McGeechan's disgusting hanging out to dry of ROG in 2009 even though the man had been knocked completely senseless and had no memory of the game, 'all for one and one for all' my fucking hole!!!

I have been arguing against Irish representation in the Lions since we beat Australia in the last RWC, when it dawned on me that we don't need this archaic four to beat one bull shit, we are more than capable of doing it by ourselves. It is a waste of time anyway because if the blessed Lions win the Aussies will just turn round and say "well it takes four of your teams to beat our one" just like they did in 89 and the Saffers did in 97.

As I said before, the tour seems to be important to BOD so let him finish his career filling Murdoch's coffers and helping to prop up aussie rugby, he owes Irish rugby nothing. I feel terrible saying it but a small part of me secretly hopes that Healy gets banned long enough that he doesn't tour and as pissed off as I am about Zebo's injury the only tiny blessing is that hopefully he won't wind up blowing his knees up playing for the fucking lions.

Everytime I am forced to listen to some smug self satisfied prick like Barnes, Morris or Evans wank on about the whole bull shit exercise I am incredulous there are people, in the northern hemisphere, naive enough to buy into this self interested nonsense.

Oh and as a P.S. if being 'passionate about the game' means supporting a team coached by this bunch of arrogant gobshites and containing players like Ashton, Phillips, Tuilagi, Wood, Hartley, Lawes (God help us) etc then I will stick to supporting Munster and Ireland.

At least when one of my team does something wrong, like Healy on sunday, I can be confident that the overwhelming majority of my fellow fans will condemn the action unlike when Calum Clark broke a fellas arm and the Stains rushed to his defence, but then they are probably 'passionate about the game'.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
The Irish mentality really gets to me, we have our media saying we shouldn't expect to win Grand Slams, players constantly talk themselves down, we only perform when we've been written off. England are a prime example of how a well coached, mentally strong team can perform. Given the talent at Irelands disposal there must be coaches in Europe and in SANZAR who think they could do a hell of a lot better than Deccie with the squad and would love to give it a shot. I suppose were going off topic at this stage and its a conversation for another day.

I don't think its a coincidence that France have won Grand Slams in 2002, 2006 and 2010, as much as I don't like Irish players getting injured and tiring themselves out on Lions tours I do like seeing them test themselves against the best in the world. I wouldn't cry if Ireland withdrew from the Lions but I'll be at the games in Aus this winter cheering them on.

I don't care if we don't win the Grand Slam but win 4 out of 5 and win the 6 Nations, as long as we win. It feels like a decade since we even won the triple crown. Yes the Grand Slam is the ultimate way to win the tournament but I will take the win any bloody way we can.

Have to say, Ireland is one of the wettest country's on the earth, but under Kidney we have never had a game plan that worked in wet conditions. I don't know how come Ireland continue to try play rugby through the backs in the wet instead of using the forwards to bash packs. This is how England beat us last week, it's how come the score was so close against the USA at the World Cup. When it's pissing down rain don't try pass a wet slippery ball, hold on to it.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
I don't care if we don't win the Grand Slam but win 4 out of 5 and win the 6 Nations, as long as we win. It feels like a decade since we even won the triple crown. Yes the Grand Slam is the ultimate way to win the tournament but I will take the win any bloody way we can.

Have to say, Ireland is one of the wettest country's on the earth, but under Kidney we have never had a game plan that worked in wet conditions. I don't know how come Ireland continue to try play rugby through the backs in the wet instead of using the forwards to bash packs. This is how England beat us last week, it's how come the score was so close against the USA at the World Cup. When it's pissing down rain don't try pass a wet slippery ball, hold on to it.
And the missed BP against the US put pressure on the Italian game that should never have been there and, I am convinced, contributed, along with the insanity of starting ROG, to the QF loss.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
And the missed BP against the US put pressure on the Italian game that should never have been there and, I am convinced, contributed, along with the insanity of starting ROG, to the QF loss.
Admit that bonus point was a big deal, but I would have played ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 as Darcy was struggling with injury and it worked really well late in the game against Australia.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Admit that bonus point was a big deal, but I would have played ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 as Darcy was struggling with injury and it worked really well late in the game against Australia.
ROG is no where near that level now. In the AIs I would like to see Sexton playing half games at 12 with one of the pretenders at 10.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
We could have had SBW or Nonu outside ROG against Wales and at the weekend and it wouldn’t have mattered. Defenses know all they have to do is blitz on the outside and force ROG to run causing a turnover or kick to their back 3 that are in position. ROG’s lack of physicality doesn’t cut it anymore, he is an Irish legend and always will be but Kidney picking him is the problem and it is tarnishing his legacy.

In regards to playing Sexton at 12, I never want to see this unless it is made necessary through injury, again. Luke Marshall should be Irelands 12 after the 6 nations and should be given a run of games to grow into the role.

I see Healy got a 2 game ban, I thought he would have got it reduced to one given he has never had a yellow or red card in his career. I mean Felon Armitage got a week taken off a ban because he turned up in a suit!
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
ROG is no where near that level now. In the AIs I would like to see Sexton playing half games at 12 with one of the pretenders at 10.
This was in regards to the QF, I wouldn't be picking ROG now, would have said to him make Fiji your last time in the green jersey in Limerick last November, at least he would have finished his international career in front of a crowd that loves him the most.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top