Queensland Reds 2024

[PhilClinton]

thanks mate. Alternate views to any of it? Thoughts on the next coach?

I'm having a listen through now, good insights.

Do you think all the players who re-signed in the last couple of weeks were briefed on some potential coaching options going forward? It's interesting a lot of the key players committed and then shortly after, Thorn announced his departure. They must have known it was coming for a while.

I know you mentioned in the poddy that they were already changing things up re the coaching staff taking on new roles.

 

[molman]

thanks mate. Alternate views to any of it? Thoughts on the next coach?

No, actually agree with most of what you said. Especially some of the discussion around player development, school boy rugby, skill development and quality of coaching. I feel the missing third tier (ARC/NRC...etc..) has really been a big loss for the QRU. It's interesting seeing all these clubs have preseason tours/games to try and get more games for their squads. There is a real need in this space.

As for the next coach, it's hard to say who the best option would be without having a better feel for the internal dynamics of the Reds (which you likely do), but sitting outside looking in, I do concur with the need to bring in a coach with experience, so I'm really hopeful they don't push for a coach who is likely still learning their craft at this level. The Reds need someone who has operated in other professional setups to bring in their knowledge and experience (or Rugby IP as they like to say) to help elevate the setup as a whole. I'm not sure learning on the job is really the ideal path, as happened with Thorn and as would likely happen if they elevate Hennan too early. As to who is the ideal person, well I'm really not sure. Deans is interesting and you still hear good things from players who spend time in his setup, he has an undeniably good rugby brain, but being a RWC year, the whole coaching landscape is about to have another shake up, so there will be a few possibilities floating around. I will say I am glad they didn't go McKellar personally. Andy Friend has done reasonably well over at Connaght, so he'd be worth looking at, but like anything it's a bit of timing, it's a bit of what QRU can afford and it's a bit of the right fit.

 

[molman]

I know you mentioned in the poddy that they were already changing things up re the coaching staff taking on new roles.

Reg mention's some of this comes up on Ryan Smith's podcast, Socks Up: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/socksup

 

[PhilClinton]

So many podcasts, so little time

 

[RugbyReg]

So many podcasts, so little time

the Smith one is only before home games so isn't too regular. But it comes with great insights. I thought the Jock Campbell one was another cracker with regards rest and recovery etc.

 

[RugbyReg]

I'm having a listen through now, good insights.

Do you think all the players who re-signed in the last couple of weeks were briefed on some potential coaching options going forward? It's interesting a lot of the key players committed and then shortly after, Thorn announced his departure. They must have known it was coming for a while.

I know you mentioned in the poddy that they were already changing things up re the coaching staff taking on new roles.

I would have thought the players would ask. I also think the response would have been as per Hanham's media statements that "we have money to spend" to attract a top tier coach. That has to be enticing.

 

[LMU]

Any big name tight five forwards off-contract next year which the Reds should be targeting? I think the prop stocks and depth is a particular concern.

For THP - I mentioned earlier I think Big Pone would be a fair swap for losing the Thor.

 

[dru]

@RugbyReg Enjoyed The Dropped Kick-Off podcast and your reflections on the current state of the Reds.

Got to agree with this. Well done Reg.

 

[SouthernX]

So it's time for some changes, I agree. But there is no way we should be thinking of re-establishing contact with New Start as some sort of new beginning.

Nobody is firing Mr Piccone. He’s the top dog at new start.

If you replace Cordingly with a high profile coach like Robbie Deans who can also take over GM duties you then at least get to have an olive branch of a new face at negotiation table / a clean slate.

 

[LMU]

Nobody is firing Mr Piccone. He’s the top dog at new start.

If you replace Cordingly with a high profile coach like Robbie Deans who can also take over GM duties you then at least get to have an olive branch of a new face at negotiation table / a clean slate.

You need the GM and Coach separate, so the players can hate on the GM but still buy into the coachs program.

 

[LMU]

Any big name tight five forwards off-contract next year which the Reds should be targeting? I think the prop stocks and depth is a particular concern.

Big Pone, Hockings, Cameron Orr, Jordan Uelese, The Slipper, Neville?

 

[molman]

thanks mate. Alternate views to any of it? Thoughts on the next coach?

... as a follow up. Do you have any sense for the timeline they (QRU) might have regarding an appointment? I always fell like it's a bit of a balancing act in not leaving it too late so that there is time for the incoming coach to have input on the shape of the team (who they fight to retain.. who they might go shopping for..) and potentially to have time to assemble any assistants etc... but then this year, you also have a few people likely playing wait and see around possible roles... opportunities. I'm not sure it's something we've always done well at our super teams. Transitions.

 

[rodha]

Deans is interesting and you still hear good things from players who spend time in his setup

well that's only if you aren't including respected players such as Anton Oliver, Christen Cullen, Tana Umaga, Phil Waugh, Lote Tuqiri, Quade Cooper, Matt Giteau, and James Horwill. And I'm certain there's a lot more I've missed who have privately expressed grievances.

 

[molman]

well that's only if you aren't including respected players such as Anton Oliver, Christen Cullen, Tana Umaga, Phil Waugh, Lote Tuqiri, Quade Cooper, Matt Giteau, and James Horwill. And I'm certain there's a lot more I've missed who have privately expressed grievances.

Fair. But most of those examples are pretty old now and contextually have more than one side to the stories, but yes, some of the historic man-management aspects from Dean's have been well noted.

I'm sure Eddie Jones isn't entirely the same coach he was when at the Reds either. Like I said above, I'm not sure who the best option for the Reds is, as a cultural fit will be part of it. Dean's has always been regarded as a very good coach with regards to the technical and skill aspects of the game. Berrick Barnes for example has spoken positively of his time under Deans at Panasonic and I do agree with Reg's reflection on how some players seem to have plateaued at the Reds. There is a need for a coach to help guide their development. Is it Deans, I don't know.

 

[Adam84]

I’d be pretty happy for Deans to come in as a director of rugby type role working with someone like Heenan as the head coach

but I don’t like the idea of a rookie(pro) coach like Heenan without some real expertise guiding him.

 

[PhilClinton]

To paraphrase what Reg pointed out in a reply to me and around the Reds press release, I doubt our big name Wallabies re-signed long term based on a promise that a rookie coach will be guiding them.

 

[dru]

Fair. But most of those examples are pretty old now and contextually have more than one side to the stories, but yes, some of the historic man-management aspects from Dean's have been well noted.

I'm sure Eddie Jones isn't entirely the same coach he was when at the Reds either. Like I said above, I'm not sure who the best option for the Reds is, as a cultural fit will be part of it. Dean's has always been regarded as a very good coach with regards to the technical and skill aspects of the game. Berrick Barnes for example has spoken positively of his time under Deans at Panasonic and I do agree with Reg's reflection on how some players seem to have plateaued at the Reds. There is a need for a coach to help guide their development. Is it Deans, I don't know.

FWIW I have the troll on ignore, but I'm interested in your comments on Deans, Holman.

I had understood that Deans technical understanding was very high, but his ability when at the Wallabies to implement that down to the players left the players scratching their heads muttering "what the?". There was discussion about ballet terms that mean something like being aware of, and filling the gap. I can see how it might be applied to rugby but suspect that there might be a better way to communicate with professional rugby players.

I wouldn't be keen to see him back at international level as the time to get your message through probably needs more distillation and more focus on a clear understandable message. OR at least I'd be looking to how his has improved in that area for a role in international coaching.

For pro club rugby there is a lot more contact time with the players, and more ability to work through a program. It isn't so driven to a short blast of intent.

I'm not sure on my thoughts of Deans coming to the Reds, but have to admit that he is exactly the sort of proven professional coach that fits the CV I would hope for. I'm certainly more comfortable with the idea than the latest Ballymore carpark applicant, with respect to the dedicated Heenan fans, that means for me Deans > Heenan.

 

[rodha]

FWIW I have the troll on ignore, but I'm interested in your comments on Deans, Holman.

I had understood that Deans technical understanding was very high, but his ability when at the Wallabies to implement that down to the players left the players scratching their heads muttering "what the?".

I'm not sure that's true, I've listened to many Quade Cooper interviews & podcasts and he seems to constantly reference McKenzie's technical/tactical understanding and astute rugby brain in contrast to his time under Robbie, he doesn't refer to Robbie directly, but in a implicit way he emphasizes the gulf between them.

iirc Genia also insinuated similar about McKenzie & Robbie, obviously they wouldn't say it straight up, but it's heavily implied if you read between the lines.

Anton Oliver is another one who in his book paints a pretty damming picture of Robbie as a coach, he describes the training drills as unstructured and unplanned, with confusion amongst the playing group as to what he was trying to achieve, he seemed to make the point that Robbie essentially winged it and made things up as he went along.

Then there's those infamous stories of tactical managers in the team such as Giteau and Cooper openly challenging Robbie's strategy & gameplans in front of the team.

 

[Adam84]

Whatever your issues with him, Deans is clearly a good coach with bucketloads of experience, and whilst i think it's unlikely he would come to the Reds, he would be a massive asset if he did

 

[molman]

I'm not sure that's true, I've listened to many Quade Cooper interviews & podcasts and he seems to constantly reference McKenzie's technical/tactical understanding and astute rugby brain in contrast to his time under Robbie, he doesn't refer to Robbie directly, but in a implicit way he emphasizes the gulf between them.

iirc Genia also insinuated similar about McKenzie & Robbie, obviously they wouldn't say it straight up, but it's heavily implied if you read between the lines.

Anton Oliver is another one who in his book paints a pretty damming picture of Robbie as a coach, he describes the training drills as unstructured and unplanned, with confusion amongst the playing group as to what he was trying to achieve, he seemed to make the point that Robbie essentially winged it and made things up as he went along.

Then there's those infamous stories of tactical managers in the team such as Giteau and Cooper openly challenging Robbie's strategy & gameplans in front of the team.

Anton who touched a rugby ball as a professional last in 2007 and probably under Dean's as an assistant coach in 2003 (20 years ago)? Quade who worked with Dean in 2012.. maybe 2013... last (10 years ago)?

McKenzie... Chieka... Rennie all coaches have had their supporters and detractors both internally and externally. I tend to find truth is often somewhere in the middle. Some of the most capable people in many walks of life are also the most divisive.