Queensland Junior Rugby

[Dark Shark]

The BJRU held their Grand Finals for u13 to u17 at Churchie yesterday.

I have heard there was some controversy in the u14 Div 1 game (Brothers v Sunnybank). Now not sure of full or exact details, but the chinese whispers I heard were:-

1. Brothers had just taken the lead towards the end of the game
2. Brothers received a penalty and it seemed all they had to do was kick it out and that was the end of the match.
3. They kicked it out and the ref blew full time whistle and the Brothers' boys celebrated.
4. The AR comes on and has a word to the ref.
5. A Brothers' player is given a Red Card for swearing.
6. Sunnybank are then awarded a penalty (so game seems not to have finished as first thought) in the attacking 22.
7. Sunnybank take a quick tap and score a try (may be some controversy there as well as a neutral person close to the scene said the ball placement was well short of the line) to take the lead, game and premiership.
8. Other spectating refs came on to the field straight away to surround (and protect) the game ref from any rubbish - but I heard that there only name calling and no pushing or shoving.
9. The Brothers' players distraught and the Sunnybank players over the moon.
10. Talk that the Ref and AR were aligned (ie either members, players or past players or received Ref/AR accreditation) with Sunnybank.

The only fact I am certain of is that Sunnybank won and that the game was won in the last second of the match. Can anyone else who was there or with a very reliable source shed any more light?

Unfortunately, in previous years I have witnessed refs aligned with Sunnybank officiate Grand Finals in the BJRU comp when Sunnybank teams are involved. I am not saying that there is any bias. It is just the perception that carries so much weight. If point 10 is correct, then those appointing or ratifying the appointments must do a better job to ensure that the Ref's/AR's integrity cannot be questioned. ie appoint neutral refs not aligned in any way to either club playing in the GF.

 

[Karl]

If the referee called full time, it's full time. Period. I'll watch what happens with some interest but I would be disinclined to let that result rest if even half of what you've written is remotely accurate.

 

[Karl]

Ok, another version. From a Brothers aligned person - just mentioning that but will also mention this person is scrupulously fair and credible.

Full time had not been called, Brothers awarded a penalty and about to kick it out. The ref reversed the penalty back to an offside that was supposedly a Brothers winger 60 to 70 meters from play having no bearing on play whatsoever. That may have been as a result of an AR intervention. So now we have a Sunnybank penalty 5m out. No comment on the grounding but it sounds like it was messy if it was a pushover try with forward bodies everywhere.

It looks like the red cards (there were 2) were handed out when 2 brothers players were heard to swear when the penalty was reversed ad handed to Sunnybank on their line.

Some say the two Brothers players getting themselves sent off caused the loss but apparently it was largely irrelevant to what happened on full time with a Sunnybank forward pack rolling a penalty from 5m out.

Seems like a very poor refereeing decision handed the game and the premiership to Sunnybank in the dying seconds. I'm told that the AR and the Ref are NOT aligned with Sunnybank based on a response to that very question from the competition manager.

As you know, I am aligned to Brothers, but these sorts of snafus should not be happening to ANY kids. Sure, call it character building, and no doubt it offers opportunities to extrapolate various life lessons, but I wouldn't care who it happens to - its bullshit when the hard work, blood and sweat of an entire season is thwarted at the last second not by a superior performance but by a poor decision by a Ref.

I feel for the Ref too. These guys put themselves in the firing line. But clearly this was an absolute howler and should not have happened.

 

[Dark Shark]

Thanks Karl for clearing up the Chinese whispers.

My main concern was the perception of bias if the officials were aligned with a playing team. If this was not the case, then their actions, however harsh, should not be questioned.

I will point out that those red cards will cost the players the opportunity to participate ( if they had been selected in a rep team, and most of this Brothers team had been selected) in the upcoming State Champs.

 

[Karl]

If they are denied participation in a rep comp I think in the circumstances that would be unjustifiably harsh. They should not have uttered audible obscenities but given the circumstances and given the choice words were not directed at a Ref, further punishing them seems unreasonable.

 

[FilthRugby]

Even though I have no sympathy for rugby referees at an international level, like that slime Allain Rolland, I hold Junior Rugby Referees in the highest regard. However, I’ve played for Brothers for quite a while, and when I was playing juniors, we had the propensity to abuse referees and opposition player quite regularly. If that abuse was directed at the referees then I support the decision for the two Red Cards. However, if they just swore, then I think that referee is being pedantic. If so then, the referee fails to realise that they aren’t in school; they’re playing a tough, contact, but enjoyable sport. Furthermore, junior rugby wouldn’t be available in Brisbane if it wasn’t for referees. It goes back to the simple premise that you don’t have a game if you don’t have a ref. I wish some of those lazy, fat arse parents would understand that. Abusing the ref from the sideline is disgusting behaviour. If they have a problem, then they should take the whistle. I feel sorry for Brothers after hearing this. Overall, this is a lesson well learnt and I congratulate the Junior Sunnybank side. Back luck boys of the Filth.

 

[Karl]

Some more info on that Sunnybank Brothers clash -

"Bit more 3rd hand info, none I can actually verify.
According to a few Brothers spectators that were close to play the AR who brought in the late penalty was heckled by Sunnybank supporters before putting up the flag, you could only imagine what was said.
And the final try was dropped over the line also directly in front of the AR at the SBank supporter end.
All whispers and not caught on video
And the Ref goes to St Lawrence school with the Sunnybank coaches son, who I assume is a player as well."

So maybe it is a bit stinky. That's a shame. You don't want your kids getting jaded and having a chip on the shoulder about Refs so early.

 

[happyjack]

So maybe it is a bit stinky. That's a shame. You don't want your kids getting jaded and having a chip on the shoulder about Refs so early.

And they won't if they are cared for by mature adults who respect what sport is about and don't engage in libelous speculation on chat forums

Get a life!

 

[Karl]

They're well looked after on that front, thanks for your concern. I didn't raise the incident and have just put up the info I have received in what i think is a pretty reasonable fashion. If there was bias then that's not a good thing and that's all I have said. You feel otherwise it seems.

Libelous? Get real.

 

[en_force_er]

And they won't if they are cared for by mature adults who respect what sport is about and don't engage in libelous speculation on chat forums

Get a life!

I'm pretty interested by what he's posting and he took the time to mention you should take it with a grain of salt.

You look like a right duffer mate.

 

[Karl]

BROTHERS JUNIORS TROPHY DAY - This Sunday - 16 September from 11am to 4pm.

Even if you're not a member, come on down, let the kids go on the rides, grab some BBQ and a slurpie.

Great day out at Crosby Park.

 

[Jets]

I spoke to someone today who was at the game and they made the below comments.

Ok, another version. From a Brothers aligned person - just mentioning that but will also mention this person is scrupulously fair and credible.

Full time had not been called, Brothers awarded a penalty and about to kick it out. The ref reversed the penalty back to an offside that was supposedly a Brothers winger 60 to 70 meters from play having no bearing on play whatsoever. That may have been as a result of an AR intervention. The player who was offside was also the tackler so he had a bearing on the play. It was the AR who spoke to the ref and the penalty was reversed. So now we have a Sunnybank penalty 5m out. No comment on the grounding but it sounds like it was messy if it was a pushover try with forward bodies everywhere.

It looks like the red cards (there were 2) were handed out when 2 brothers players were heard to swear when the penalty was reversed ad handed to Sunnybank on their line. A yellow and red card were awarded for separate incidents. After receiving the cards both players verbally abused the ref.

Some say the two Brothers players getting themselves sent off caused the loss but apparently it was largely irrelevant to what happened on full time with a Sunnybank forward pack rolling a penalty from 5m out.

Seems like a very poor refereeing decision handed the game and the premiership to Sunnybank in the dying seconds. I'm told that the AR and the Ref are NOT aligned with Sunnybank based on a response to that very question from the competition manager.

As you know, I am aligned to Brothers, but these sorts of snafus should not be happening to ANY kids. Sure, call it character building, and no doubt it offers opportunities to extrapolate various life lessons, but I wouldn't care who it happens to - its bullshit when the hard work, blood and sweat of an entire season is thwarted at the last second not by a superior performance but by a poor decision by a Ref.

I feel for the Ref too. These guys put themselves in the firing line. But clearly this was an absolute howler and should not have happened.

 

[Karl]

That's interesting. It is not surprising that there will be many versions of the events and even more opinions. It's hard enough to work out what went on sometimes with televised games, multiple camera angles and slow motion replays.

 

[Jets]

I guess we are lucky it was an Under 14 game and not the RWC.

 

[Karl]

What's the difference?

 

[Karl]

Best Forward Brothers U11 Silver. Proud Dad.

 

[Karl]

Best, um, Orange Eater, U9 Silver

 

[Jets]

What's the difference?

And this in my view is the issue with junior rugby at the moment. If you can't distinguish between a group of elite professional athletes trying to win the most converted trophy available to them and a group of teenage athletes who, may have aspirations to someday do the former but, realistically the majority will be playing for enjoyment of the game and a sense of achievement then there is an issue. Many parents and players putting too much emphasis on winning the competition rather than improving as individuals and as a team to be the best they can be.

In the Rugby Coaching thread Huge Jarse has a great post where he outlines the Canadian Long Term Athletic Development Pathway. This pathway is the basis of many athletic development programs around the world. It focuses on how to get the best out of athletes and developing them to reach their potential. Step 2 in that process is the "training to train" phase. This is where these players are currently situated in their development pathway. The focus here is teaching proper techniques and performance of these techniques on the field rather than a focus on results of games.

There are a couple of links below to the LTPD more specific to rugby

http://www.irbsandc.com/?module=2
http://www.irishrugby.ie/development/long-term_player_development.php

The way that Junior Rugby is currently structured, in Brisbane at least, there are a large number of competitions where teams are not evenly matched. Teams will regularly ask to be put in a lower division so that they have a chance of winning a title rather than competing against other teams of their level or slightly better. In my experience some other teams will be put in a higher grade based on rumour rather than fact. While the competitions managers try and make all of the divisions fair it requires them to be supplied with the correct information by the clubs. The school system is a much better system for players from the U13-U18 age groups where players can move up and down grades as their bodies and skill level develop, or don't as the case may be.

I am not having a go at you here Karl or your Club it is just comments like the one above don't sit well with me.

 

[Karl]

I was being ironic/sarcastic. Sorry. That might not have come across.

 

[Jets]

I had hoped that was the case but have had enough issues with people in Junior Rugby that wanted to put my point across.