Quade v Barnes... Australia's version of Carlos v Mehrtens?

[mudskipper]

Barnes is no Mehrtens...never was never will be… Cooper on his day is far better the Spencer...

On the weekend I did think it was interesting that Barnes chose a cutout pass to Horne when McCabe was a safer option on his right in the open. Horne nearly dropped the ball as the pass was average. Did Barnes do this to avoid passing the ball to Pat McCabe who has been holding down the 12 spot and scoring often? Barnes coverts the 12 spot as Cooper will soon be back at Flyhalf... Frankly I thought this was a telling moment in Barnes psyche…

 

[Viking]

JOC (James O'Connor) looks to be the perfect 15 to me. I can't see why we don't see more of him in that position? He could become Australia's version of Christian Cullen

I'm very reluctent to have a short fullback. I think fullback will be JOC (James O'Connor)'s worst position, he will get exploited under the high ball too often. I still have nightmares of when Cory Jane embarressed him at fullback, easily leaping over JOC (James O'Connor) and catching a bomb targeted at the short wallaby and going in for an easy try. This was a year or two ago.

Atm the moment I like him as a roaming winger. Or depending on the flyhalf, at 12. (Would not partner him with Cooper - the opposition would have a feild day running through there channel). He did very very well at RWC, so why change it? Having McCabe and Barnes in the Centres offers a lot of balance IMO.

 

[mudskipper]

its a shame JOC (James O'Connor) was never trained as a scrumhalf... he wants to be the play maker,

 

[fatprop]

its a shame JOC (James O'Connor) was never trained as a scrumhalf. he wants to be the play maker,

JOC (James O'Connor) plays for himself too often to be the playmaker, his outsides would only ever get a chance after all his options close

 

[Brisbok]

Mehrtens at his peak would still be in the top 2 or 3 flyhalfs in world rugby today IMO. He was obviously aided by more often than not having a dominant/strong pack of forwards, but he had the ability to control the tempo and completely dominate a game. His kicking game was probably the best we've seen from a 10. Barnes brings more to the table defensively than Mehrtens, but in every other category he has a long way to go before being spoken of in the same light.

 

[Braveheart81]

On the weekend I did think it was interesting that Barnes chose a cutout pass to Horne when McCabe was a safer option on his right in the open. Horne nearly dropped the ball as the pass was average. Did Barnes do this to avoid passing the ball to Pat McCabe who has been holding down the 12 spot and scoring often? Barnes coverts the 12 spot as Cooper will soon be back at Flyhalf. Frankly I thought this was a telling moment in Barnes psyche…

Your tinfoil hat is showing.

 

[mudskipper]

Your tinfoil hat is showing.

Watch the replay... it rather obvious... If it was an All Black play they would have just put it through the hands from left to right with minimum risk and scored… Horne would have likely scored anyway via McCabe...

 

[Tank]

Barnes is no Mehrtens.never was never will be… Cooper on his day is far better the Spencer.

On the weekend I did think it was interesting that Barnes chose a cutout pass to Horne when McCabe was a safer option on his right in the open. Horne nearly dropped the ball as the pass was average. Did Barnes do this to avoid passing the ball to Pat McCabe who has been holding down the 12 spot and scoring often? Barnes coverts the 12 spot as Cooper will soon be back at Flyhalf. Frankly I thought this was a telling moment in Barnes psyche…

I have not posted in a long time but this thread has brought me back!

As much as I am an Australian rugby fan, and think Barnes is a good player, I cannot agree with the characterisation of Barnes being akin to Mehrtens.

Andrew Mehrtens, in my opinion, is one of the absolute greats of the game. 70 caps, nearly 1000 points and an amazing provincial record.

Sure he tussled with Spencer a bit but there was no denying he was the overall winner in that tussle.

Conversely, the Cooper/Spencer comparison is pretty apt. They already have played a similar number of tests and obviously have that exciting tag - Cooper, however, potentially has a lot left in front of him.

Maybe the comparison could be more appropriately be Spencer v Tony Brown?

That said, a can't agree with mudskipper that Barnes may have passed to Horne to try and ensure he could get the 12 jersey - I am not that cynical and I think that is unfair on Barnes.

 

[Jiggles]

JOC (James O'Connor) is probably the closes thing we have had to Horan, since Horan. Although as others have mentioned, until Cooper mans up and tackles, which he can do, I wouldn't put them in at 10-12 together.

JOC (James O'Connor) seems to think about how he can make the line break by himself first, then using his team mates second. This is very much like how Giteau played 10, and when the footwork and speed starts to slow by the late 20s, you become a liability. Cooper seems to use his team mates first, and sees himself as an option second, which is what you want in a 10. Cooper putting JOC (James O'Connor) into gaps with only a fullback to beat, having Ioane and Beale lurking inside and outside, would be amazing to watch.

 

[Scotty]

Did you watch the Wales games?

He controls the territory pretty well, can place kick and knock over drop goals. As to the tries:

1st Wales game

Try 1 - forwards and genia did pretty much the whole thing in the lead up, then the forwards made the try
Try 2 - genia clean break with help from digby as a dummy runner
Try 3 - genia to mccabe back on the angle

2nd Wales game

Try 1 - good run from barnes for the break, but what I think made the try was genia's pass.


Over the two games he didn't really do that much as far as creating breaks or tries. We will see if anything differs this weekend.

 

[Scotty]

JOC (James O'Connor) is probably the closes thing we have had to Horan, since Horan. Although as others have mentioned, until Cooper mans up and tackles, which he can do, I wouldn't put them in at 10-12 together.

JOC (James O'Connor) seems to think about how he can make the line break by himself first, then using his team mates second. This is very much like how Giteau played 10, and when the footwork and speed starts to slow by the late 20s, you become a liability. Cooper seems to use his team mates first, and sees himself as an option second, which is what you want in a 10. Cooper putting JOC (James O'Connor) into gaps with only a fullback to beat, having Ioane and Beale lurking inside and outside, would be amazing to watch.

I like the balance of a 10/12 combo to be half 'solid' and half 'flare'. Ideally both players would have these characteristics, but if there isn't anyone to do that, then we need to pick one that is solid and one that is flare:

Barnes & JOC (James O'Connor)

Cooper & Barnes

 

[Scotty]

Watch the replay. it rather obvious. If it was an All Black play they would have just put it through the hands from left to right with minimum risk and scored… Horne would have likely scored anyway via McCabe.

To be honest I think Barnes just stuffed up the pass.

 

[waratahjesus]

I actually think McCabe overran his support line causing a rethink, it was credit to Barnes he hit horne.

 

[fatprop]

He controls the territory pretty well, can place kick and knock over drop goals. As to the tries:

1st Wales game

Try 1 - forwards and genia did pretty much the whole thing in the lead up, then the forwards made the try
Try 2 - genia clean break with help from digby as a dummy runner
Try 3 - genia to mccabe back on the angle

2nd Wales game

Try 1 - good run from barnes for the break, but what I think made the try was genia's pass.


Over the two games he didn't really do that much as far as creating breaks or tries. We will see if anything differs this weekend.

In the Genia, McCabe and Horne tries there was also great work off the ball by the outside units to create doubt in the inside defenders.

 

[mudskipper]

I actually think McCabe overran his support line causing a rethink, it was credit to Barnes he hit horne.

Barnes sure didn't pass the ball behind McCabe... So how can that be so?

 

[DPK]

Barnes sure didn't pass the ball behind McCabe. So how can that be so?

McCabe had Warburton on his left hand shoulder. The parallax error of the camera angle means that we can't be sure how close he was, but to pass to McCabe would have been to tempt fate. Passing to Horne meant the try was a done deal.

Also, he had about 1 second to make that call. I think you're reading a bit too much into it.

 

[DPK]

Try 1 - good run from barnes for the break, but what I think made the try was genia's pass.

Honestly, Scotty, when I first read this I figured it was just Queensland bias, but rewatching the tape it it really was a super duper pass. Good call.

 

[Scotty]

Thanks. Super duper hey? That is pretty good!

 

[Slim 293]

This is great.......

Arguing over who was at fault in a try scored.

It was a good effort from all involved...

McCabe's supporting run drew in the welsh 10 and 12 that allowed Barnes to slide through, and then Barnes rightly cut it out to Horne who was open to the line.......

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

JOC (James O'Connor) looks to be the perfect 15 to me. I can't see why we don't see more of him in that position? He could become Australia's version of Christian Cullen

he could also be timmy horan mark II!