QLD Premier Rugby 2017

[legaleagle]

Safe to say that Horton is not one of the 8 top refs going round in QPG, there are a number who were over looked who have a better feel and understanding of the game. Horton and a couple of others tend to get influenced greatly by the crowd and lacks composure when the game is getting tight. Players and coaches alike get very frustrated with Horton's interpretations and rulings. It's a tough job being out in the middle but when a team's season and coach's futures are on the line you'd like to think the person with the whistle is competent, confident and levelled with the decision they are making.
The double bye couldn't have come at a better time with a fair bit of match soreness and some minor niggles going round. Mitch King should be cherry ripe for the run into the finals.

 

[Moonrat]

Have to say I was at the game and went home at the point the uncontested was called. For me as a traditionalist and someone who thoroughly enjoys watching the scrum contest I was disgusted by the call. I am still struggling having watched it back on youtube as to whether GPS were as amazing as they looked or Brothers were just pathetic. I dare say it was a combo of both.
The call on Horton is a tough one, what was she to do, The team I have followed this season (Brothers) totally abused the situation. Anything but a GPS win would have been a blight on the day but truth is it wasn't the officiating that would have caused it - total dominance up front, 2 yellow cards a mountain of possession should have resulted in a cricket score. That probably says more about gps attack and than it does about brothers defence.

 

[eldiablo]

they should have at least been rewarded by Brothers being reduced to 14 men, however, the match officials missed this section of the laws and the visitors finished the game with a full compliment. The Gallopers held on for a vital win, a result that was not only important for them, but for the officials getting out of Yoku Road alive.

From this article. Can anyone confirm this ruling? Would be interesting to know - I haven't seen an uncontested scrum in a level higher than 2nd grade (4th Grade) in years!

 

[gws]

Premier grade refs at the moment are the worst and most inconsistent i have seen since i started playing prems in 2008. They have no idea about scrum laws and touch judges are also very inconsistent. I think they need more assessment by whoever sorts that and further training because we have lost damon, nic berry andna few others to higher level. Even during the game players from both sides cant believe some things that are called.

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[RugbyReg]

http://www.redsrugby.com.au/Portals...cuments/2017-QRU-Premier-CompetitionRules.pdf

7.12 Uncontested scrums

(I) It has been agreed by the participating clubs that contested scrums are and should be an important part of the game competed at Premier level.

(II) That to be successful in the competition at this level a team should have contested scrums.

(III) It is recognised that from time to time due to particular circumstances such as unavailability of players starting the game with contested scrums may not be possible.

(IV) If a team commences the game with non-contested scrums as confirmed by the referee the Competition Committee shall require the team to provide an explanation and depending upon all of the circumstances the Competition Committee shall determine whether any penalties are to be imposed in relation to that match and may have regard to the penalties referred to in clause 7.9.

(V) No decision shall be made until such time as the club has had the opportunity to be heard and provide details of the circumstances which led to the match starting with uncontested scrums.

(VI) There is no appeal against the decision of the Competition Committee to the Judicial Appeals Committee or otherwise except against the decision to disqualify the team from participation in the competition.


Sorry - that doesn't really help. Will see if I can find anything else.

 

[new recruit_ brisbane]

Premier grade refs at the moment are the worst and most inconsistent i have seen since i started playing prems in 2008. They have no idea about scrum laws and touch judges are also very inconsistent. I think they need more assessment by whoever sorts that and further training because we have lost damon, nic berry andna few others to higher level. Even during the game players from both sides cant believe some things that are called.

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All the premier grade ref's i have seen this year were all officiating in Suburban A Grade games in the past few years and not once did I ever think they had any clue what they were doing - how they end up doing Premier Grade is beyond me.

 

[RugbyReg]

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=3.6


In a squad of 23 players, or at the discretion of the Union/match organiser, a player whose departure has caused the referee to order uncontested scrums cannot be replaced.

 

[eldiablo]

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=3.6


In a squad of 23 players, or at the discretion of the Union/match organiser, a player whose departure has caused the referee to order uncontested scrums cannot be replaced.

Thanks Reg! Would have been interesting had that happened, along with the 2 yellows for Brothers.

 

[gws]

Honestly some calls this yesr have been so out of it, its embarrassing. So out of there depth its not funny. Like i said i know its a hard gig but there is no consistency what so ever and something needs to be done or come finals its going to look even worse

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[Serge]

Thanks Reg! Would have been interesting had that happened, along with the 2 yellows for Brothers.

So what happens from a competition perspective? Does Brothers get penalised in some way (eg loss of a competition point(s)) or does it just go down as a major refereeing cock-up with no further action other than Horton being dropped (I presume)

 

[Neville Magee]

So what happens from a competition perspective? Does Brothers get penalised in some way (eg loss of a competition point(s)) or does it just go down as a major refereeing cock-up with no further action other than Horton being dropped (I presume)

Both Brothers' props were injured. Of the two Reggies' props who played, one of them was carrying an injury from his own game. Dustin Henagan then got carded following another GPS dominant scrum (with GPS flanker binding on Brothers' flanker to help twist the platform). Referee is sole judge of fact and time, even after consulting with TMOs.

Brothers should not be penalised as they had no options and safety had become an issue. The error in the application of the law cannot be laid at Brothers' feet 'posthumously'. The game and the result is as it is.

The volume of game penalties suggests that there were other issues impacting on the outcome of the game.

 

[Rugbys4every1]

Just watched Sunnybank vs UQ the reff they had wasnt too bad surely one of the better reffs going around, geeez what a battle Faagasi and Fotuaika had.

 

[underthesticks]

Honestly some calls this yesr have been so out of it, its embarrassing. So out of there depth its not funny. Like i said i know its a hard gig but there is no consistency what so ever and something needs to be done or come finals its going to look even worse

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One thing that I can't understand is how many blatant forward passes are missed. I go to GPS home games and every week theres at least 3 really obvious ones that everyone but the touchies see. What else are they looking at?!

 

[manwithcaninhand]

One thing that I can't understand is how many blatant forward passes are missed....What else are they looking at?!

I hate saying it but it has always been thus in Rugby, even at international test level, at least since the 1970s which is when I saw my first test. Passes that would be deemed forward in league are just ignored. I don't know why.

 

[Serge]

Both Brothers' props were injured. Of the two Reggies' props who played, one of them was carrying an injury from his own game. Dustin Henagan then got carded following another GPS dominant scrum (with GPS flanker binding on Brothers' flanker to help twist the platform). Referee is sole judge of fact and time, even after consulting with TMOs.

Brothers should not be penalised as they had no options and safety had become an issue. The error in the application of the law cannot be laid at Brothers' feet 'posthumously'. The game and the result is as it is.

The volume of game penalties suggests that there were other issues impacting on the outcome of the game.

Interestingly the front row combination that played contested scrums when the Brothers front rower was carded then became the same front row combination when they went uncontested. Not sure how a 'qualified' front row that wasn't a safety issue became an 'unqualified' front row that was a safety issue in the space of 10 minutes. Regardless, that's not the point being made and I agree did probably not impact on the outcome of this particular game given the limited time left - but may well do so in a future match so we need to get this right. Thanks to Rugby Reg we can see that the competition rules point specifically to the ARU Laws on this specific issue, so there are two parties at fault IMO. The first is clearly the Brothers team management - as management at any level - but particularly Premier level, should be completely across the competition rules and the associated ARU Laws - especially when dealing with replacements. If they are not there is the first critical point of failure and requires urgent rectification. The second problem rests with the Referee who also needs to be across the ARU Laws, the Competition Rules for the respective competition they are refereeing and the Game Management Guidelines - at least we had to be when I was refereeing. The 'error in application of the Law' and with the Competition rules is without any doubt initially with Brothers Prem grade management of replacements, followed subsequently by the Referee who should have intervened in accordance with the Laws and Rules they are obligated to uphold.

 

[Serge]

I hate saying it but it has always been thus in Rugby, even at international test level, at least since the 1970s which is when I saw my first test. Passes that would be deemed forward in league are just ignored. I don't know why.

The difficulty lies in the application of the relevant Laws given it is a subjective assessment made in a split second by the referee. In Rugby Union, if the pass is released in a backward motion from the hands of the passer, but floats forward given the momentum of the ball continues to move forward with a similar speed to that of the passer, then the pass is not deemed forward even though the ball actually travels forward relevant to the ground. Thus to the spectator who is not fully aware of the Laws of the Game - what looks like a forward pass is actually not. That said, the judgement required to assess whether the ball left the hands in a backward motion is not always the best.

 

[manwithcaninhand]

?.. the judgement required to assess whether the ball left the hands in a backward motion is not always the best.

Thanks for clarifying that Serge. Are the touchies permitted to advise the ref of their opinion on a pass if they consider it to be deliberately forward?

 

[Serge]

Thanks for clarifying that Serge. Are the touchies permitted to advise the ref of their opinion on a pass if they consider it to be deliberately forward?

Yes, but only if they are qualified 'Assistant Referees' appointed to the game and would need to be miked up to be able to advise the referee in a timely manner. In QPR, only Premier grade has appointed 'Assistant Referees' who are miked up, although there has been a push to expand this to some other grades.

 

[Bulldog]

Rule interpretations and the standard of refereeing aside with six rounds remaining and nothing really between the 4th and 7th sides (i.e. just 5 points) outlined below are the respective run into finals of the teams currently 4th-7th.

I have tallied the number of games against:
- Top 3 Opponents;
- 4th-7th Opponents;&
- 8th & 9th Opponents;
below:

Easts 3;1;1 = 5
Wests 2;1;2 = 5
Souths 3;1;1 = 5
Brothers 1;3;2 = 6 *(having already had their second bye)

Arguably Easts & Souths have the harder run-in with games against Uni, GPS & Snbk over the last 6 rounds, then probably Wests & Brothers in terms of difficulty.

On this basis Brothers would have to be favoured to secure the 4th spot!!

Easts, Wests & Souths will need to get some Top 3 scalps in order to give themselves some breathing space. Pressure could still come to bear on GPS & Sunnybank if they lost a game or two.

It is going to be a ding dong battle for that 4th spot with nearly every result having a bearing on your team's chances. There will certainly be a bit of death riding around QPR over coming weeks.

This weeks games: Bros v Easts; Uni v Wests and Snbk v Souths will be very important results. A Bond loss to Norths this Saturday would secure the wooden spoon for the Gold Coast side.

TEAM: R13; R14; R15; R16; R17; R18; Top 3 Opp; 4-7 Opp; 8&9 Opp
EASTS(25 points): Bros(A); Norths(H); Snbk(A); Uni(A); BYE; GPS(H) 3 1 1
WESTS(23): Uni(A); Snbk(H); BYE; Bond(A); Bros(H); Norths(H) 2 1 2
SOUTHS(23): Snbk(A); GPS(A); Uni(H); Bros(A); Bond(A); BYE 3 1 1
BROS(20)*: Easts(H); Bond(H); Norths(A); Souths(H); Wests(A) Snbk(H) 1 3 2

* Bros are the only team (of these 4) to have had their second bye at this stage (others are Snbk & Bond).

 

[legaleagle]

Thanks Bulldog, great lead into the final half of the season. Looking at the match ups over the next couple of weeks if Norths get a run on (unlikely but possible) they could make things pretty interesting with their final game v Wests possibly deciding who gets fourth spot for a number of sides. Also with Bond getting their four Aus 20s players back next week they could really cause a few headaches for Bros, Souths and Wests. Bros probably have the best run home with already having the bye and four home games while Souths and Wests have a pretty challenging time of it. In saying that Easts having The Bank, UQ and Jeeps will be no walk in the park. Great couple of months of footy coming up. Just quietly Uni already scoring 78 tries this season is something special.