Qld Premier Rugby 2012

[tigerland12]

Both are pertinent subjects if spoken about in the right context. I think player payment is an issue because i am scared of Qld prem comp becoming like the hsute shield where clubs are crippled by the arms race..
anyway ...Idea came into my head the other day. Should Premier colts be lifted to 20's? or should a separate U21's comp be installed? As we seem to lose alot of talent to league or nothing after colts as many feel they are not up to the physicality of the senior game. Would this viable? and give us a better indicator as to who is up to the u20's Wallabies?

Didn't John O'Neil say there was a State u20 competition in the pipeline at the ARU? If that does come to fruition it would mean the clubs would definatly have to raise the colts age bracket.

 

[en_force_er]

Didn't John O'Neil say there was a State u20 competition in the pipeline at the ARU? If that does come to fruition it would mean the clubs would definatly have to raise the colts age bracket.

Most of the blokes playing in these hypothetical u20 state comp would be playing seniors anyway.

A comp like this would go a long way to having something to pitch Vs Toyota Cup other than dumping every promising youngster into 7s.

 

[East Coast Aces]

Most of the blokes playing in these hypothetical u20 state comp would be playing seniors anyway.

A comp like this would go a long way to having something to pitch Vs Toyota Cup other than dumping every promising youngster into 7s.

At first I hated the idea of U20s super teams, but the more I think about the more i think it would benefit by having it either U21 or similar to the Soccer at the Olympics where they are allowed a certain number of overage players. This provides a mentor aspect as well as raising the standard of the comp. After the better the standard the comp is the better the standard the players who graduated from it are.

In club rugby this will benefit Prem Grade as there would only be 8 games against the other U20 Aus teams these players would go back to Prem Grade.

If everyone graduating from High school is now 18 or will be 18 (I dunno how it all works with Prep etc) I think it is worth it changing Colts to U20, but if its not keep it at U19.

 

[East Coast Aces]

Just found this online, http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/spo...ans__Antipodeans_on_the_radar_for_Bucks_club/

Seems D.Skelton, a mainstay for tigers at inside centre and a club junior, has packed up and left for greener pastures of English lower division rugby.

"AMERSHAM & Chiltern might want to add the Barbarians suffix to their name in a week or so.
The Weedon Lane outfit are struggling in National League 3 South West, but two recruits from the other side of the world could be the catalyst for a revival.
Dave Skelton is due to touch down from Australia in the coming days and, visa permitting, he’ll be followed by a prop from New Zealand."

 

[tigerland12]

When moving to England did he choose the shittiest club team on purpose? haha. I mean fair enough just a local club, but from that read it'd be like playing for the Redlands.

 

[spectator]

When moving to England did he choose the shittiest club team on purpose? haha. I mean fair enough just a local club, but from that read it'd be like playing for the Redlands.

I say good on Skelton for taking the opportunity to play rugby overseas. He's been an excellent contributor for Easts over the last few years, has a massive engine and great attitude, and that can only be good for his new club. Who knows he may get spotted and move up a rung or two over there?

Will he be back for the 2013 club comp? If not, there is a bit of a hole for Easts to fill.

 

[East Coast Aces]

I say good on Skelton for taking the opportunity to play rugby overseas. He's been an excellent contributor for Easts over the last few years, has a massive engine and great attitude, and that can only be good for his new club. Who knows he may get spotted and move up a rung or two over there?

Will he be back for the 2013 club comp? If not, there is a bit of a hole for Easts to fill.

There are plenty of 12s at the club. At the beginning of the year he was 3rd choice behind UJ and Sean Cox. And Matt Zahner had a good first year in Seniors for Reserve grade.

 

[tigerland12]

There are plenty of 12s at the club. At the beginning of the year he was 3rd choice behind UJ and Sean Cox. And Matt Zahner had a good first year in Seniors for Reserve grade.

Sean Cox will definatly be the 12 next year baring injury.

 

[Jets]

Any change in the Tigers coaching ranks next year boys? You would think that if they missed out on the finals again heads would have to roll. After their good win in 2008 I'm surprised they haven't made the GF again.

 

[spectator]

Any change in the Tigers coaching ranks next year boys? You would think that if they missed out on the finals again heads would have to roll. After their good win in 2008 I'm surprised they haven't made the GF again.

I don't think they're too far away from another GF Jets and they have been consistently Top 5 since 2008. Not too many Reds, similar to Brothers, but still able to keep relatively good pace with the stacked rosters of Uni and Bank. Coaching staff have done a great job.

You forgot the fishing icon.....

 

[Jets]

I find it interesting that people from clubs that don't develop players so that they reach the Reds continually go on about those that do having stacked teams. In most cases the rep players are returning to clubs that they were part of before being picked up on contracts so it's not as though they have gone out and bought players.
If teams like Sunnybank rely on their rep players to win they how come Easts lost to them when they didn't have these rep players playing?

 

[tigerland12]

I find it interesting that people from clubs that don't develop players so that they reach the Reds continually go on about those that do having stacked teams. In most cases the rep players are returning to clubs that they were part of before being picked up on contracts so it's not as though they have gone out and bought players.
If teams like Sunnybank rely on their rep players to win they how come Easts lost to them when they didn't have these rep players playing?

You forgot the fishing icon again mate........

 

[Cat_A]

I find it interesting that people from clubs that don't develop players so that they reach the Reds continually go on about those that do having stacked teams. In most cases the rep players are returning to clubs that they were part of before being picked up on contracts...

A single like for this just didn't seem enough. Take a real look at what happens at Uni & Sunnybank and you'll find that both clubs go after schoolboys and juniors. No club in their right mind would throw money at 17 or 18yo kids hoping they will make it- even playing Aussie schoolboys doesnt guarantee you a Wallaby jersey in the future.

Instead these clubs put that money into developing their colts programs: quality coaches & managers all the way down to Colts 3, providing enough equipment to train with, ongoing training for their coaches, opportunities to play in Sevens (something Bank do really well). They help with cheap gym membership, they might have a player in grades studying a sports science degree who could write some gym programs etc etc

Yes, if you have that you'll attract the high-demand players, but it's not about throwing cash at kids.

From there if you treat your players well, help them develop their skills and support their growth away from rugby also, then they'll hopefully stay (sometimes they go elsewhere- it happens). If and when they get picked up by the National Academy or a Super Rugby side, people then pay attention.

A couple of examples: Chibba Hanson didn't come to Uni as a Reds player. He wasn't in their squad. He wasn't even in the (then) Reds Academy. Nor was Stephen Moore in his first year of Colts. Jake Schatz was a Sumnybank junior from at least u12 that I remember.

Am I saying that every club is squeaky-clean? No- I have no idea about my club, let alone anyone else's. Am I saying that other clubs arent doing this? Again- no, I don't profess to know the ins and outs of club administration. But I do know of the effort the successful clubs put into their colts programs & I think it's effects are hugely understated when we talk about Premier grade rugby performance.

 

[spectator]

I find it interesting that people from clubs that don't develop players so that they reach the Reds continually go on about those that do having stacked teams. In most cases the rep players are returning to clubs that they were part of before being picked up on contracts so it's not as though they have gone out and bought players.
If teams like Sunnybank rely on their rep players to win they how come Easts lost to them when they didn't have these rep players playing?

OK, I started this particular line of discussion, so I best respond. When I referred to the 'stacked rosters of Uni and the Bank', I was simply referring to how many Reds they have on their books. At no stage was I referring to recruitment policy, possible enticements or attractive programs. I have no idea about these. Good on Uni and Sunnybank for having so many rep players on their books, whether developed as juniors or recruited as seniors. There is obviously something attractive about what they offer as Clubs.

I was more responding to the inference about the ápparent failure' of the Easts coaching staff since 2008, and at the risk if inviting more criticism, let me defend further. Pat Richards and his coaching team have done a sterling job of developing and harnessing talent at Bottomley Park. The 2008 team is testament to how he took a bunch of very young club players and a couple of veterans (not sure if Andrew Walker was playing that year) to a championship over far more well credentialled teams. Since that time Easts have been knocking on the door at the business end of every season, and have contributed two Reds and one Force player to Super rugby and a player to the national Sevens team. I believe the Super rugby count next year will be a couple of Reds main squad players, and a few more EPS squad members. If that ain't developing players to reach the Reds then I don't know what is? Before anyone says well with those players why didn't they do better, the two Reds players have unfortunately been injured for much of the last two seasons, but Easts success rate when they have been on the paddock has been very high.

CAT A - your point about Chibba Hansen and Jake Schatz is a good one. Same goes for the Lucas brothers, Albert Anae and Liam Gill at Sunnybank. Probably a few more at both clubs. It's also great to see Kingi and Alo-Emilie coming back to play club for the team they were in before Super rugby. And your point about good programs áttracting high demand players' probably also has merit. Why else would Rod Davies, Dave McDuling, Guy Sheperdson and Mike Harris have joined the Red Heavies?

As a proud East supporter, whilst I am at times envious of the Ëlite player"depth and better resources at other clubs, I couldn't be happier supporting the talent at Bottomley, and the coaching staff that has nurtured them.

And so endeth todays sermon.....

 

[tigerland12]

I was thinking today about where the Premier Comp is in comparison to AFL and NRL Intrust Cup locally in Brisbane. In terms of crowds, exposure and quality. Thoughts?

 

[happyjack]

Sunnybank won the Byron Bay 7s defeating Iconz in the final by 45-24.
NSW clubs Norths, Randwick, Manly and Eastwood were in attendance so it was a good field.

 

[spectator]

I was thinking today about where the Premier Comp is in comparison to AFL and NRL Intrust Cup locally in Brisbane. In terms of crowds, exposure and quality. Thoughts?

Intrust has got great support and is televised so I'd say that is No. 1.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

A single like for this just didn't seem enough. Take a real look at what happens at Uni & Sunnybank and you'll find that both clubs go after schoolboys and juniors. No club in their right mind would throw money at 17 or 18yo kids hoping they will make it- even playing Aussie schoolboys doesnt guarantee you a Wallaby jersey in the future.

Instead these clubs put that money into developing their colts programs: quality coaches & managers all the way down to Colts 3, providing enough equipment to train with, ongoing training for their coaches, opportunities to play in Sevens (something Bank do really well). They help with cheap gym membership, they might have a player in grades studying a sports science degree who could write some gym programs etc etc

Yes, if you have that you'll attract the high-demand players, but it's not about throwing cash at kids.

From there if you treat your players well, help them develop their skills and support their growth away from rugby also, then they'll hopefully stay (sometimes they go elsewhere- it happens). If and when they get picked up by the National Academy or a Super Rugby side, people then pay attention.

A couple of examples: Chibba Hanson didn't come to Uni as a Reds player. He wasn't in their squad. He wasn't even in the (then) Reds Academy. Nor was Stephen Moore in his first year of Colts. Jake Schatz was a Sumnybank junior from at least u12 that I remember.

Am I saying that every club is squeaky-clean? No- I have no idea about my club, let alone anyone else's. Am I saying that other clubs arent doing this? Again- no, I don't profess to know the ins and outs of club administration. But I do know of the effort the successful clubs put into their colts programs & I think it's effects are hugely understated when we talk about Premier grade rugby performance.

I dont mean to be rude but jake schatz is really the only one that you could talk about being 'developed' by his club.

You can't seriously say uni is a fantastic club for developing players when you highlight to players whoc ame to your club as australian schoolboys and in the current australia rugby system are pretty much entitled to higher honours due to that. If you said con foley maybe i could stomach it but even he was oz shadow or thereabouts.

At a club like uni that pulls most qld/australian school boy representatives through the reputation of winning, coaches and undeniably scholarships (which anyone can apply for)

your bound to get a few rep stars out of it regardless of coaches or facilities.

As much as it hate the bank they at least have juniors that develop through there ranks....which accounts for some of there representative players. So lets not put the two clubs in the same cateogory for developing talent

the quote that fits best here is probably 'Don't piss on my shoes and tell me its raining'

 

[Heather]

It's true that Uni doesn't 'develop' players from a young age because there is no juniors. Uni became aligned with Kenmore bears a few years ago now and I believe we ae now getting a good few boys coming over once they graduate from there. But riddle me this...
1)I believe that Uni are the only club in Brisbane that has never had juniors attached to them. Gold Coast and Sunny Coast also don't I know but I think there are junior clubs in both areas (would love someone to clarify that). Uni is also a very transient club - many players come cuz they go to University there. But this also translates into them leaving 3-4 years later once their studies are completed. Do the math- one reason why colts have been strong but grades struggled for years!
2)It's only been the last 3 or so years that the club has experienced success across the board. In my 11 years there so far I can tell you that the bad years still far outweigh these good years.
3)We don't "pull most...representatives" every year- I know there have been some years that have been quite lean with "rep players". And seriously- it takes more than one or two of these players to win a GF!!
Actually, Aside from the freaky colts 1 team of 2002 the last team 'stacked' with rep players scraped into the top 4 and were humiliated by Easts in the first week of finals.
So if we don't have juniors to pull from then we had to develop something different to interest players to come to the club. Starting the UQ rugby academy years ago now was foresight on behalf of the club and the committee. We've had a good few players developed through there to go onto professional rugby. These have been guys who have been no where near the radar of any professional outfits.

So that 'reputation of winning' has come from a crapload of hard work over many years, from many people (whom many of these are unpaid!) that is ongoing all year. It's not rocket science... This hard work and foresight does result in winning GFs for ALL of the colts teams on a pretty regular basis!

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Don't pull many rep players?
And haven't really had a stacked team since 2002? Have you read your colts team lists the last three years? You have Qld schoolboy players in colts 1?

Also from my knowledge I heard that Kenmore deal was coming to an end.......

Your right it takes more than one or two to win a final so look at 22 players who won it this year and last on top of my head I can count 7 form both years at least.

Anyway can we get a mod to make a QLD prem rugby ins and out thread or 2013 thread as its about that time for coaches to be announced.