QLD GPS Rugby 2019

[The Nomad]

Rugby First,

As you mentioned the State Champs at Sunnybank has been a regular for a number of years , but not to pick the Qld Schoolboy teams. It has been used to pick the CSS team that then competes against AIC & GPS teams at the Qld Schoolboys trials.

Do you know why the change?

Assuming both the AIC and GPS schools would have had some advanced notice of the change?

Surely not one way traffic on lack of communication.

Have heard that NSW and Vic are looking at combining their Academy and Schoolboy teams, any chance of this here at some stage? Think most would like to see the best possible team chosen and best outcome achieved.

 

[Oldschoolpete]

Interesting lead story in the sport section of Today's Australian newspaper , Foxtel in preliminary talks to get GPS First XV rugby on the telly.

Politically could get tricky, with all members of the GPS having to sign off on it. They interviewed the principal from NC and he didn't seem to know much about it, but managed to get a great photo of the NC First XV in the paper.

Also mentioned maybe the end of NRC , with a possible change to a national club comp, top 4 from Shute Shield and Hospital Cup playing off to decide a national champion.

At first I was positive about the move, but on reflection, it dawned on me that the great job that take2 sports guys do, with the streaming of some GPS games, they will be locked out as part of Fox insisting 100% on commercial rights. A great many of us will be disappointed if the streaming service was put to one side. If it wasn't for those guys, a lot of us from outside Brisbane would not see any of the great games that the GPS produces.

 

[Jets]

Rugby First,

As you mentioned the State Champs at Sunnybank has been a regular for a number of years , but not to pick the Qld Schoolboy teams. It has been used to pick the CSS team that then competes against AIC & GPS teams at the Qld Schoolboys trials.

Do you know why the change?

Assuming both the AIC and GPS schools would have had some advanced notice of the change?

Surely not one way traffic on lack of communication.

Have heard that NSW and Vic are looking at combining their Academy and Schoolboy teams, any chance of this here at some stage? Think most would like to see the best possible team chosen and best outcome achieved.

QSS have pushed for this as Rugby is the only sport that doesn't select from the U18 State Championship for that sport.

 

[Confucius Say]

Some interesting logic there.

How do you reckon a good First XV side would go against a good Colts 1 side?

Presumably, according to your argument, the schoolboys would probably win because most of the Colts boys would have "already reached their peak" and/or been "unable to maintain discipline" after leaving school.

In any event, by what metric have you arrived at your conclusion about many of the school leavers listed by GO having already reached their peak? Does this mean that, by extension, most of this year's 17 yo schoolboys will also have "reached their peak" by this time next year, apparently for no reason other than the fact that they're no longer at school?

The bottom line is that at at least some of the boys you've already written-off will be vastly improved products this year, depending of course on their respective motivation and fitness. Those that do fall in this category will have a natural advantage over younger boys still at school, that's just a fact.

I did say many not all. Even you say some will be better, but many won't. My logic is this:

- percentage of first XV boys that go onto Colts is currently low. Many go to league or overseas or nothing
- performance of QLD schoolboys teams last year was not good. Did they become better rugby players because they left school?
- I know that some (not all) of the boys on Gary Owens non-school list are not training as hard or are as fit as they might be
- I'm referring to the best of the 16/17 year olds who have thrashed the best NSW team for the last 2 years versus some of the "names" that have left school

Sure, there are "some" boys older who are naturally better. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

If you took the "year 13" boys from a Colts team, there'd be plenty of better year 12s. You can't compare a Colts team with boys both one and two years out of school to a school first XV. That is really flawed logic. But the post match activities you could compare for sure.

Yes, there will be plenty of 17 year olds this year who history will look back kindly on - their peak year being First XV. But some of the ones on the radar of selection are already superior to many that left last year.

 

[The Nomad]

Qld under age teams regularly beat all comers at rugby, Qld have won the most U16 national titles full stop.

Open Schoolboys is an U18 comp where Qld fields team that are roughly 50:50 17 and 18 year olds against other teams that are predominantly 18 and the results haven’t been great.

This year the U18 Academy team will most likely be the best talent available from schools with the addition of the best of those who finished school last year as 17 year olds. Chances are the majority of the team will end up being 18 this year, meaning apples with apples when it comes to playing NSW. Would dare say our chances are better at winning the Academy games compared to Schoolboys.

Guess we will see come June.

 

[Galloper]

I did say many not all. Even you say some will be better, but many won't. My logic is this:

- percentage of first XV boys that go onto Colts is currently low. Many go to league or overseas or nothing
- performance of QLD schoolboys teams last year was not good. Did they become better rugby players because they left school?
- I know that some (not all) of the boys on Gary Owens non-school list are not training as hard or are as fit as they might be
- I'm referring to the best of the 16/17 year olds who have thrashed the best NSW team for the last 2 years versus some of the "names" that have left school

Sure, there are "some" boys older who are naturally better. I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

If you took the "year 13" boys from a Colts team, there'd be plenty of better year 12s. You can't compare a Colts team with boys both one and two years out of school to a school first XV. That is really flawed logic. But the post match activities you could compare for sure.

Yes, there will be plenty of 17 year olds this year who history will look back kindly on - their peak year being First XV. But some of the ones on the radar of selection are already superior to many that left last year.

I think we're going in circles a bit so I won't reply in detail particularly as, theories aside, we will all know the real answer within the next 6 months or so.

In reality, my point boils down to the overwhelming probability that, all other things being equal, an 18yo player will have a significant physical advantage over a 17yo.

And, I think most fair-minded observers would agree that the primary reason for the Qld schools teams struggling last year (Qld 2 in particular) involved poor selection, not a general lack of talent across the cohort.

 

[Confucius Say]

Merci, I 100% agree. But the name being mention are the same one.

 

[Garry Owens]

Well in terms of the same names being thrown around it's an individual opinion / perception thing I suppose.

But in terms of the 15 x names that were originally put forward as eligible 18 year olds who have left school - I reckon many would agree that :

- Hudson Mulcahy was a stand out smash mouth 2 before he went down injured last year
- Zac Crothers , also a 2 , whilst not as dynamic as Mulcahy , was a more traditional tight forward 2 who always turned in a high work rate - and was rewarded with an Australian Barbarians berth from what was a very weak QLD 2 Team
- John Downes finally fulfilled his promise and was 1 of 2 or 3 stand out forwards in the AIC Comp and performed creditably at the National Championships and was also rewarded with an Australian Barbarians berth
- Matt Englebrecht , despite not being as tall as what you'd think , won most lineout ball in GPS Rugby last year and ( I think ) was Top 3 in Tackle Count
- Will Roche was turning in another great season before he went down injured and led turnovers for GPS Rugby last year at 11 - and probably would have come close to the McReight / Moseley mark of early 20's and was an Australian Rep
- Ben Geraghty also had a fine AIC season last year - and genuinely stepped up to the plate for QLD 2 at Nationals last year playing lock , 6 and 7 and doing it all with equal aplomb
- Carter Gordon - no comment really needed - speaks for itself
- Josh Flook didn't have the external ""ooh and aah" chat about him before the start of last season but was the best defensive back in GPS Rugby last year and performed well in a weak QLD 2 Team down at Nationals . The double kick ahead play (involving his last kick ) for Bennett to score in the corner and ice it for the Nudgee win last year was nothing short of outstanding
- Dan Atkinson was another low volume high achiever and a very under rated counter attacking option that probably got lost in the spotlight that focused more on Bennett and Banjo in Nudgee's back 3 last year
- And irrespective of what you think of them - taller rangier 18 year old locks at 6'6 to 6'7 are always going to get picked - especially over 6'2 to 6'3 17 year old locks

In terms of the 18 year olds still at school .....

I don't think anyone is going to argue too much with Nongorr, Vella and Pasitoa . Even Jack Bowyer . And Glenn Vahui has his admirers . Then there is whole bunch of guys that are going to have to prove themselves that aren't the same names being thrown around and didn't have the magic carpet ride through the selection circuit as 17 year olds - where , the external volume was low - but they still put together very very good seasons . Think of guys like TSS's Luc Lyndon , Beau Douglas and Dion Samuela. Maybe one of the greatest question marks on this season will be the rangy enigma that is Jock Thompson at NC

And we haven't even talked about Lismore's James Durheim yet ( 18 in Jan ) who is poised to have a big year upfront for BBC

But the whole point of putting JD's name out there , and even TSS's Douglas , is that they aren't the usual names that get thrown out there and Lyndon and Samuela are talents that might be a bit better known but don't seem to have the same volume as other names that get thrown around

Here is a couple of other 18 year olds you shouldn't forget and that no one is talking about either .....TGS's Tim Fainaganuku ( 2 ) and Dougal Grey ( 7 ) I am sure they are determined to put forward big seasons

Having said all of that , for me , there does seem to be opportunity around the halves and IGS's Kalani Thomas and Sam Walker would logically be in the mix - and truthfully , guys like Banjo , Savage and Howarth in the outside backs are sort of "once in every so often" style type of talents that you would think are right in the thick of things

But outside of this ......and looking at it as logically as possible - I don't see much else in the mix. But as always there will be an outlier that no one sees coming - but in what is foreseeable for now ..........

 

[Confucius Say]

Thanks. A perfect rear view mirror of the age group. I will book mark this page and watch my Insta closely for these names.

 

[Defensiverugbymum]

I’ve never been so disappointed in my son’s school and it’s refusal to allow my son to trial for the regional team so that he can possibly make one of the Qld schools teams this year. If these students were employees in a workplace there would be grounds for a work place bullying case against their employee. These students should be able to access the same opportunities that every other boy in the state can access and be encouraged by their schools to do do. It is quite the opposite, ‘There are no national schoolboys this year’, ‘There is only the academy pathway available for our school’ we don’t have the paperwork, get the paperwork from other people. We won’t accept the paperwork. Who are they to make these decisions for my son? It’s ironic that those who are being discriminated against are the fortunate one’s like ourselves who pay the exorbitant school fees for our sons to attend such schools. They aren’t allowed the same representative opportunities that those attending a state school are able to access because someone in their school has made an elitist separatist decision in collusion with the other GPS schools and QRU. All this does is reinforce the opinion of non-rugby people that the QRU doesn’t care about growing the game outside of the GPS schools and the arrogance of GPS schools to make decisions for students that should be the domain of their parents. Many parents, like myself that are too scared to voice their concerns openly for the repercussions for their sons firstly by the school and then by the Reds in the future.

 

[Jets]

I understand them not promoting the pathway but if you're full fee paying and you actively ask to have the forms signed off by the school I think it's a bit poor if they don't.

There's going to be a few years of this I think, not sure if it will get better or worse.

 

[Warrenball]

I've been told that the 'national carnival' will be contested between 2 x NSW teams and 2 x QLD teams with the other states having already pulled out to concentrate on their u18 academy programs my understanding (could be wrong on this). The academy model was set up by RA to minimise the interruptions of school 1st XV programs in their holiday prep time. My sons school have explained the 'pathway' quite well at the start of their pre season, not without some uproar from the glory chasers.

It does come across as a focus on the 'elite' u18 group and arguably unfair to non gps schools, who don't run GPS equivalent standard programs hens why the regional model allowed an alternative for non gps school boys to compete for recognition, but I am told schools like Marist have not sent their students as the state carnival clashes with a 1st XV fixture.

The opportunity for boys to gain selection comes on the back of strong performances in 1st XV games, but I'd argue whether the parents/students complaining about not going to regional trials are genuine 1st XV players at their respective schools...is it just a fringe player chasing a cheap state jersey to go straight to the pool room? The previous trial model of GPS 1,2,3 teams was also only for 1st XV standard players, the difference here is that the academy model doesn't allow for the same volume of 1st XV players trialling. New system...takes time and explanations, will be good in the long run.

 

[Garry Owens]

^ School attending Academy Players from Tahs will be playing for NSW Schools Teams if selected

 

[Garry Owens]

It appears there is a late run of nominations from all AIC Schools not named Marist College Ashgrove

My man tells me this morning that there are :

- 4 x SLC boys , at least 3 x Villa Boys , and possibly 2 - 3 Iona boys nominating and trialling next Thursday for MET EAST

- There are Padua and SPC Boys also nominated for MET NORTH

- No one has heard what SPLC and SEC's intentions are in the West but there are a couple of boys expected to nominate from Ambrose Treacy in MET WEST - and who were part of the State Champion U15 Met West Team from 2 years ago

On the GPS end of things there are 3 x players who have found a way to source forms and get them signed off and who will trial for MET EAST - and then there is only 1 x other GPS player from another Met Region that has nominated. So literally - 4 out of 400 - Opens Rugby Squad and eligible U16 Players from Brisbane GPS Schools ( yep that's 1% - that's known at this stage )

Back to those Maverick AIC Administrators .........my man tells me nearly all AIC Schools have actively sought to reschedule their games at the end of Week 1 in Term 2 - which was scheduled as the last trial round for AIC Schools so that they could facilitate their student's involvement in this alternate pathway.

The unfortunate thing for MCA players is that there are probably boys who no doubt would have appreciated , and benefited from , this opportunity

Hats tipped to those AIC Directors of Sport / Heads of Rugby for initiating and facilitating this involvement for their students , when , Rugby is under fire in their association as AFL and League get a foothold in these Schools and continue to grow in relevance - and if you think that is bullshit - tell that to the 92 x Lauries Boys out of a cohort of circa 200 that were in attendance at Yeronga AFL Grounds last Friday Night that either participated in or supported their AFL Firsts team whipping of Marist College Ashgrove

Oh and by the way ....both League and AFL are supplying Coaches and Officials ( Umpires / Touchies etc ) through AIC Schools as they establish their beach head

 

[Garry Owens]

Anyway ...it is all a bit too hasty in slagging off QLD Schools as a triple red zone whupping prospect down at Nationals . It might be more of a debate about degrees of whupping , but honestly , they may not be that bad

IF they make themselves available .....

Downlands

Mac Grealy might be the best Schoolboy No 15 in QLD - end of story. Kai Duggan is a talented 9 /10 and would start at most if not any GPS School

Sunshine Coast

Cooper Elliot ( 6/8 ) Max Gow ( 12 / 13 ) and then Louis Werchon ( 9 ) are up there

Central QLD

Emerald State High's Patrick Mohr lit up JGC a couple of years ago for QLD White and was as good or better than any other wing running around

Then you look at AIC and the main weapons that would be in your mix and you've got :

Iona's Will Markham ( 4/5 ) - who did a great job for QLD U16 Red last year

St Pat's Connor O'Reagan ( 9 ) - who performed well for Open AIC last year in the QLD Schoolboy Trials ( and I think may have been first choice No 9 )

SLC's Angus Sawtell ( 2 ) who missed all of last season with injury but figures to be the dominant 2 in AIC this year

SEC's Ryan Holden ( 1/3 ) who was exceptionally solid in U15 and 16 QLD campaigns and probably figures to be the best "do it all" Prop in AIC Rugby this year across all facets in his work rate

St Peter's Max Hurwood ( 6/7 ) who will run and harass oppositions all day

Throw in a big bodies like Padua's Jayden Walker ( 1 ) Ambrose Treacy's Aaron Iulio and St Pat's Taelyn Nukunuku at 6/8, a natural finisher in Villanova's Robert Agnew on the wing and a couple of back utilities like SLC's Tyler Fleming and Iona's Max Plath....and augment it with the best out of the zone regions you can find - and you might find that - at least the No 1 QLD Team could surprise some people and be closer in games than what the initial response has been just because the GPS Association has chosen to by pass the pathway

In effectively what would amount to a combined AIC / CSS Team - a best of GPS probably does them by 30 to 40 , but then , it might be a 15 to 20 point margin ( guess ....based on evidence of last couple of years and adjusted for full availability ) that they'd put on a NSW Schools Team

Don't be surprised if the margin is inside 20 points ( if availabilities of AIC and CSS is there as outlined above and the mix comes together )

It might not be as much of a whupping as people think

 

[Garry Owens]

To note , the last day of Nationals is Saturday July 13th

It is also the end of the June / July School Holidays

That is also the day of a planned "Festival of Rugby" day at Tennyson where all GPS Schools are playing each other on the same card

And MCA.

Early draft of the draw has them playing TSS that day I believe

It is more a critical time for GPS Schools I guess with everyone likely having Camps on in that last week

 

[vac]

BAG is taking the piss boys , he is Red and Black through and through!

Don't you love it though.....he oh so subtle

 

[BraveandGame]

Don't you love it though...he oh so subtle

Tell you what - the fishing is not good - I am not liking the discipline I am seeing from the GreenWhiteBlack even on this forum - it just smells like their year in 2019, too good to miss out and then of course the flood gates might open.

 

[Garry Owens]

You two should get a room

 

[Oracle83]

Tell you what - the fishing is not good - I am not liking the discipline I am seeing from the GreenWhiteBlack even on this forum - it just smells like their year in 2019, too good to miss out and then of course the flood gates might open.

Wrong bait - we are in hibernation