This isn't the case. To play for the Aust U18 team you have to be in one of the academy teams. If you aren't in the teams in June and September then you wont be selected for Australia.
QLD GPS Rugby 2019
- Thread starter terry from Townsville
- Start date
This isn't the case. To play for the Aust U18 team you have to be in one of the academy teams. If you aren't in the teams in June and September then you wont be selected for Australia.
G
GingerBreadCrab
Guest
You’re conflating two teams. As it stands, one will be picked from the outstanding performers at the annual National Champs that will take place at Riverview. I believe this will be the “Australian Schoolboys” team.
At this point in time the pathway to this team ^ is not supported by GPS/AIC teams because it interrupts their season quite badly.
Therein lies the opportunity for boys outside the junior elite programs (FNQ, Western QLD, Darling Downs etc) to state their claim for selection into a Super Rugby side’s U/18 Academy or even U/20 Academy if they’re good enough.
The pathway that is being supported by GPS and AIC sides is the Reds Academy U/18 squad. Boys that perform well in the top-tier schoolboy competitions are invited into the program and from there they play games against other Super Rugby U/18 Academies. The best performers of these games are then picked to play in the Australian U/18 side.
Generally speaking, painting in very broad strokes and opening myself up to criticism, the Australian U/18 side picked from the Academies will be a better side than the Australian Schoolboys side picked after National Champs.
P
Patriot
Guest
Agree with a lot of what you say but why should coaches be protected? What makes them so special? Every kid gets the same level of teaching in the classroom why not on the training paddock? Why shouldn’t coaches be answerable to those who pay? Teachers and headmasters are.As for kids talking to coaches re feedback, I personally witnessed a young player ask a coach why he was dropped after the A team he was playing in, which had won its previous 4 games in which he’d played well, by big margins,coaches answer,that’s just the way it is. Some coaches just ‘put it over’ kids because they can. Absolutely they should be accountable
Garry Owens
Alan Cameron (40)
Yes
Which is to say to play National Champs ( Schoolboys ) you have to to go through your region ( IE be selected for your region ) and play in the State Champs at Sunnybank and then be picked for either QLD Schoolboys 1 or Queensland Schoolboys 2
Same deal for Australian Schoolboys - got to come all the way though the path - if you miss part of the path you can’t try and join later
I'm not.
The Academy squads for 2019 are already picked. Unless the policy is changed a lot of Boys wont have a rep team to play for in 2019.
Garry Owens
Alan Cameron (40)
The explanation of the structure of the 2 x pathways is NOT the same in NSW , VIC or ACT. Their Academy players still at school will be lining up for their respective Schoolboy Teams
QLD , for now , is the exception
It’s a shame for the 17 year Grade 12 students ( whom will comprise approx 90-95% of the GPS and AIC Schoolboy competitions in South East QLD this year ) as it is unlikely the majority of them won’t end up with the opportunity and experience of participating in higher honours Rugby as many that have gone before them
My mail is that 18 year olds that finished last year and are playing Colts or Prems this season and are “tagged” in the U20 program, but not required for duty , will be eligible for U18 Academy games and U18 National honours
Think names like Downes , Mulcahy , Crothers , Blyth , Tuinona , Engelbrecht , Roche, Geraghty , Tevega , Kirk , Gordon , Condon , Pona , Flook , Atkinson ,etc
And then of course you have the U18’s still at school like Vella , Nongorr , Thompson , Douglas , Lyndon , Pasitoa , Grey , Samuela , Bowyer, Vahiu and Bilston
Unless they are lights out outstanding it is going to be very difficult for U17’s to play higher Rep in QLD this year - and maybe even ongoing , if , consolidation occurs as what is operating in NSW, ACT and VIC where their Academy and Schools team seem aligned
QLD , for now , is the exception
It’s a shame for the 17 year Grade 12 students ( whom will comprise approx 90-95% of the GPS and AIC Schoolboy competitions in South East QLD this year ) as it is unlikely the majority of them won’t end up with the opportunity and experience of participating in higher honours Rugby as many that have gone before them
My mail is that 18 year olds that finished last year and are playing Colts or Prems this season and are “tagged” in the U20 program, but not required for duty , will be eligible for U18 Academy games and U18 National honours
Think names like Downes , Mulcahy , Crothers , Blyth , Tuinona , Engelbrecht , Roche, Geraghty , Tevega , Kirk , Gordon , Condon , Pona , Flook , Atkinson ,etc
And then of course you have the U18’s still at school like Vella , Nongorr , Thompson , Douglas , Lyndon , Pasitoa , Grey , Samuela , Bowyer, Vahiu and Bilston
Unless they are lights out outstanding it is going to be very difficult for U17’s to play higher Rep in QLD this year - and maybe even ongoing , if , consolidation occurs as what is operating in NSW, ACT and VIC where their Academy and Schools team seem aligned
because there's a difference between a tech and the year's of training and professional experience they have had and coaches helping out kids get the chance to run around on the weekend.
Plus if you are choosing schools for your kids based on the level of coaching they will get, perhaps except if they are A players and have a legitimate career opportunity in rugby (which, let's face it, the vast majority will not) then I reckon your priorities need to be assessed.
Garry Owens
Alan Cameron (40)
True - see above
Not for the reason you state where Academy Squads are already picked -with the implication that these squads can’t or won’t change
They will
The Reds have been clear - the squads are fluid
Having said that , for reasons already mentioned I can’t see many U17’s playing if the Mail is correct and all 18 year old Academy players are available ( whether they are U20 Academy and still U18 eligible or are 18 years old in the U18 Academy )
Here is the thing though - every single one of those names mentioned are gone from U18 Academy / U18 National eligibility next year
18’s ongoing for the majority of players would seem to be a one and done type opportunity , whereas U20’s / JW is a genuine 2-3 window for pathway players
Confucius Say
Colin Windon (37)
Some reasonable players there and Vaihu is also still at school. No real standouts in the group that has left school. And with respect, the problem with having left school is that the discipline required to be a rep player isn't always there. Sure there are drinks and parties for the school kids but the non-school kids don't have the several months of strict environment in a first XV school squad. And the opportunities to be partying or lazy are arguably greater once year 12 is finished. One of the main reasons why so many Schoolboy reps don't go onto greater rugby careers is that they cannot maintain the discipline required to succeed.
So i think the u17s have as good a chance of anyone. Many of that non-school list have already reached their peak.
And to the boys not in the academy, and not been given the opportunity to play QSS carnival, think of the long game.
Garry Owens
Alan Cameron (40)
Perhaps
But you have 11 x U18 year olds in the above lists still at school , many of whom , have already played QLD or Aus Schools in that list , or U16 Rep in the year prior and who figure to have positional advantage as being amongst the best in their School First XV competition this season
Then you would think out of the 15 listed who have left - that at least half of them would be in the mix ( at a minimum )
There is 17 to 18 guys ( 18 year olds ) right there in your 23 - which is sort of how I see it this year for the 17 year olds .
I only see room for 5 ( maybe ) Maybe a 9 and 10 and 2 or 3 outside backs
Speculating of course
I guess we'll see . Book mark this if you like.
Ultimately , if 18 year olds are in the U20's program ( and they wouldn't be if they were piss wrecks ) and they are not required for duty there - odds on they are back in 18's and will represent the predominate numbers
I'm assuming the idea behind this structural change was to playing age like for like v other countries around the world and to better delineate a pecking order
But you have 11 x U18 year olds in the above lists still at school , many of whom , have already played QLD or Aus Schools in that list , or U16 Rep in the year prior and who figure to have positional advantage as being amongst the best in their School First XV competition this season
Then you would think out of the 15 listed who have left - that at least half of them would be in the mix ( at a minimum )
There is 17 to 18 guys ( 18 year olds ) right there in your 23 - which is sort of how I see it this year for the 17 year olds .
I only see room for 5 ( maybe ) Maybe a 9 and 10 and 2 or 3 outside backs
Speculating of course
I guess we'll see . Book mark this if you like.
Ultimately , if 18 year olds are in the U20's program ( and they wouldn't be if they were piss wrecks ) and they are not required for duty there - odds on they are back in 18's and will represent the predominate numbers
I'm assuming the idea behind this structural change was to playing age like for like v other countries around the world and to better delineate a pecking order
The Nomad
Bob Davidson (42)
Interesting lead story in the sport section of Today's Australian newspaper , Foxtel in preliminary talks to get GPS First XV rugby on the telly.
Politically could get tricky, with all members of the GPS having to sign off on it. They interviewed the principal from NC and he didn't seem to know much about it, but managed to get a great photo of the NC First XV in the paper.
Also mentioned maybe the end of NRC , with a possible change to a national club comp, top 4 from Shute Shield and Hospital Cup playing off to decide a national champion.
Politically could get tricky, with all members of the GPS having to sign off on it. They interviewed the principal from NC and he didn't seem to know much about it, but managed to get a great photo of the NC First XV in the paper.
Also mentioned maybe the end of NRC , with a possible change to a national club comp, top 4 from Shute Shield and Hospital Cup playing off to decide a national champion.
Galloper
Darby Loudon (17)
Some interesting logic there.
How do you reckon a good First XV side would go against a good Colts 1 side?
Presumably, according to your argument, the schoolboys would probably win because most of the Colts boys would have "already reached their peak" and/or been "unable to maintain discipline" after leaving school.
In any event, by what metric have you arrived at your conclusion about many of the school leavers listed by GO having already reached their peak? Does this mean that, by extension, most of this year's 17 yo schoolboys will also have "reached their peak" by this time next year, apparently for no reason other than the fact that they're no longer at school?
The bottom line is that at at least some of the boys you've already written-off will be vastly improved products this year, depending of course on their respective motivation and fitness. Those that do fall in this category will have a natural advantage over younger boys still at school, that's just a fact.
The Nomad
Bob Davidson (42)
^ top that off with a few of them in the Academy system across both U20's and U18's and you have some pretty fit and motivated 18 years olds .
The boys who finished school last year and are in the U20's squad have been doing 4 x 3 hrs sessions a week since early December at an intensity level well above what they were doing at a similar stage at school .
The U18's have been back for about 4 weeks, not doing as much , but still training.
All of these boys are a year older , physical development a year more progressed , it makes a difference.
The boys who finished school last year and are in the U20's squad have been doing 4 x 3 hrs sessions a week since early December at an intensity level well above what they were doing at a similar stage at school .
The U18's have been back for about 4 weeks, not doing as much , but still training.
All of these boys are a year older , physical development a year more progressed , it makes a difference.
terry from Townsville
Allen Oxlade (6)
of course no wishing and hoping agenda being pushed by confucious there
RugbyFirst
Frank Row (1)
I’d like to just highlight the mistruths whether out of ignorance or self-gain that have been shared in relation to the National Schoolboy Championships and its accessibility to all QLD students.
1. The National Schoolboy Championship is going ahead at the same venue and date window as in previous years, albeit without the Combined States and West Australian sides I believe. I have been told by a mate with intel from NSW schools that the Aussie schools has enough money in its coffers to deliver the championship for several more years, with or without RA support.
2. Every student in Queensland between the ages of 16 to 18 has the right to trial for their regional team in the next couple of weeks so that they can play at the State Championships in May this year. This provides the opportunity to select the two Queensland teams which will compete at the Nationals. I acknowledge that it is not the ideal timing for trials, but I wouldn’t think that the GPS students are any less prepared than any of the other school’s in their regions. They don’t trial as GPS teams so it could/ should be at least an individual decision rather than a bloc decision.
3. I have contacted my son’s school sports coordinator and have been told all AIC schools are supporting their students’ participation at the regional titles with the exception of Ashgrove. From what I hear there are differing levels of encouragement for players at the different AIC schools, but none are blocking the opportunity for their students to represent their region and state except for Ashgrove. Hopefully, the “Members of the College family act courageously and stand in solidarity, committed to the creation of a more just world” and pressure the Marist Brothers Ashgrove Principal to allow students the opportunity to trial for their regional team. Cynical people would quite rightfully highlight that those AIC schools with staff involved in Junior Reds programs last year are less supportive than those more independently involved in rugby union funnily enough. I also have heard from BJRU families that there are several boys from GPS schools who are attending their regional trials or have lodged nominations. Whether the other GPS schools are going to bully those GPS schools who allow it from trialling, we will soon find out.
4. The schoolboy representative opportunities do not interrupt the GPS or AIC seasons quite badly. The AIC competition is a 7 game competition in a 10 week term. The state championships clash with one round of the competition, but there are plenty of opportunities if schools showed some flexibility to address this situation. The national schoolboy preparation has traditionally been in the first week of the holidays and the carnival the second week of the holidays. This is before the GPS season even starts and I am sure the coaching staff that have been employed by GPS schools would have the talent and experience to adapt their preparations in those weeks.
The situation were there has been systematic pressuring, some would argue ‘bullying’ by key staff in GPS schools for students not to pursue schoolboy rugby rep honours. At best they are culpable of not sharing information to the students whose families pay good money to go to their schools and preying on their ignorance of the timelines of the new process of gaining Qld schools selection.
1. The National Schoolboy Championship is going ahead at the same venue and date window as in previous years, albeit without the Combined States and West Australian sides I believe. I have been told by a mate with intel from NSW schools that the Aussie schools has enough money in its coffers to deliver the championship for several more years, with or without RA support.
2. Every student in Queensland between the ages of 16 to 18 has the right to trial for their regional team in the next couple of weeks so that they can play at the State Championships in May this year. This provides the opportunity to select the two Queensland teams which will compete at the Nationals. I acknowledge that it is not the ideal timing for trials, but I wouldn’t think that the GPS students are any less prepared than any of the other school’s in their regions. They don’t trial as GPS teams so it could/ should be at least an individual decision rather than a bloc decision.
3. I have contacted my son’s school sports coordinator and have been told all AIC schools are supporting their students’ participation at the regional titles with the exception of Ashgrove. From what I hear there are differing levels of encouragement for players at the different AIC schools, but none are blocking the opportunity for their students to represent their region and state except for Ashgrove. Hopefully, the “Members of the College family act courageously and stand in solidarity, committed to the creation of a more just world” and pressure the Marist Brothers Ashgrove Principal to allow students the opportunity to trial for their regional team. Cynical people would quite rightfully highlight that those AIC schools with staff involved in Junior Reds programs last year are less supportive than those more independently involved in rugby union funnily enough. I also have heard from BJRU families that there are several boys from GPS schools who are attending their regional trials or have lodged nominations. Whether the other GPS schools are going to bully those GPS schools who allow it from trialling, we will soon find out.
4. The schoolboy representative opportunities do not interrupt the GPS or AIC seasons quite badly. The AIC competition is a 7 game competition in a 10 week term. The state championships clash with one round of the competition, but there are plenty of opportunities if schools showed some flexibility to address this situation. The national schoolboy preparation has traditionally been in the first week of the holidays and the carnival the second week of the holidays. This is before the GPS season even starts and I am sure the coaching staff that have been employed by GPS schools would have the talent and experience to adapt their preparations in those weeks.
The situation were there has been systematic pressuring, some would argue ‘bullying’ by key staff in GPS schools for students not to pursue schoolboy rugby rep honours. At best they are culpable of not sharing information to the students whose families pay good money to go to their schools and preying on their ignorance of the timelines of the new process of gaining Qld schools selection.
What makes you think there will be no Combined States team? The management positions for these rolls have been advertised by Australian Schools Rugby Union so I'd expect then to go ahead.
https://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2019/news/team-positions-for-2019-applications-called/
https://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2019/news/team-positions-for-2019-applications-called/
Dean Moriarty
Billy Sheehan (19)
Rugby First ,
Congratulations on your post that raises many valid points.
I wonder what has changed between seasons past and this season where Opens Squads from both AIC and GPS Schools would accommodate their players participation in trials , training sessions and tours of Queensland and Australian Schoolboys sides ?
It sounds like it isn't a problem for anyone in AIC to have a go with the exception of Ashgrove as you point out. In GPS however it seems as though there is only one school that has posted a notice of regional trial.
Every school that now prefers their students don't participate in this pathway no doubt has their reasons which may not all be the same . It is difficult for a student though who would like to pursue it and feels as though they can't and that if they do they would run the risk of disfavour when it comes to representing their School. Maybe everyone knows which side the bread is buttered on.
Congratulations on your post that raises many valid points.
I wonder what has changed between seasons past and this season where Opens Squads from both AIC and GPS Schools would accommodate their players participation in trials , training sessions and tours of Queensland and Australian Schoolboys sides ?
It sounds like it isn't a problem for anyone in AIC to have a go with the exception of Ashgrove as you point out. In GPS however it seems as though there is only one school that has posted a notice of regional trial.
Every school that now prefers their students don't participate in this pathway no doubt has their reasons which may not all be the same . It is difficult for a student though who would like to pursue it and feels as though they can't and that if they do they would run the risk of disfavour when it comes to representing their School. Maybe everyone knows which side the bread is buttered on.
RugbyFirst
Frank Row (1)
I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification. Ironically enough I heard that through RA channels. So falling for miscommunications can even happen to the best of us.
RugbyFirst
Frank Row (1)
I would say the difference this year is that it is a year of process change and the miscommunication and messages being made by key RA/QRU staff to members of schools has been fostered by the codependence between the QRU and GPS schools that has grown over the years. While the GPS system is the premier nursery for rugby talent there always seems to be several players from The AIC schools and CSS schools systems that have been the number one in their respective positions if not at the Queensland selection games then by the end of the National championships. The silo attitude of the academy approach is really not a way to grow the game or the upper level of the talent pool for that matter. Imho there should be multiple pathways to reach the pinnacle. Putting them in the academy ’silo’ makes it hard to compare apples with apples if they never compete against each other. If I was cynical, I would propose that maybe RA and GPS power brokers want to maintain and reinforce the myth that the GPS way is the only way. It is short sighted and a view/approach I am sure not all in GPS agree with but are too intimidated to talk against. I am assuming most GPS coaches and rugby heads want to climb up the coaching tree that RA officials can shake them from. It is a shame that the students in their care have to be the victims of the power brokers/puppet masters of the “system”
The appearance that in every other super rugby state the Academy and schoolboy team are coexisting and in the ACT working so well as to win a national schoolboy titles a few years ago also makes one consider why it has to be any different in Queensland.
I think it is important to remember how little rugby these young men are playing in the GPS and AIC system each year to develop their rugby experience. Like many a spectator has said to an overzealous referee, ‘let the kids play’. Only in this case, the referee most likely has a RA/GPS clipboard and a bloody big budget.
The end of the pathway is the Wallabies and they often lose their games because of poor game management which funnily enough is best learnt and fine tuned playing games.