Pumas vs Wallabies - Sunday 9th October @ Twickenham

[KOB1987]

Well. I suppose you could take the position that we haven't really troubled the AB lineout, so why not just give it up and try to win in other areas?
There may be some perverse logic there.

I think that's the thing, we're only talking about winning our own line out ball, steals are a thing of the future hopefully (excluding genia's overthrow wins!). So is a makeup of 2 jumping locks + mumm/fardy + timani going to be significantly superior to 2 jumping locks + timani + Houston on our own ball?. Houston is a much more skilled 8 than timani and it lets timani concentrate on bashing kiwis. It's a bit of a cost/benefit thing, but I think the benefits win overall.

 

[TOCC]

He wasn't an official and shouldn't have touched the ball.

Phipps shouldn't have pushed him.

It shouldn't have been a penalty.

Fucktardery all round

Ok he wasn't an official, he was a medic.. In either case, players shouldn't be shoving medics, officials or waterboys even if they do get involved in the game, if one does get involved then leave it up to the Referee to handle, dont go shoving or pushing them over.... I agreed with the penalty.
Phipps has these little brain explosions, a few weeks ago he was throwing Fekitoa's boot into the crowd, he needs to just focus on playing rugby...

 

[TOCC]

I think that's the thing, we're only talking about winning our own line out ball, steals are a thing of the future hopefully (excluding genia's overthrow wins!). So is a makeup of 2 jumping locks + mumm/fardy + timani going to be significantly superior to 2 jumping locks + timani + Houston on our own ball?.

Yes, 3 genuine line-out jumpers are always going to be better then 2. Neither Houston or Timani are genuine line-out jumps, although yes they can both physically jump and have probably taken a few line-outs in their time. Wallabies need minimum of 3 genuine jumpers and then a 4th option like Houston/Timani who can take the occasional ball.

Especially against the All Blacks who simply put, have the best line-out in the game currently.. If the Wallabies go into the game with any less then 3 genuine line-out jumpers then its going to play straight into the AB's hands. Perhaps if the Wallabies had quality kickers who could find space and reduce the counter-attacking opportunities it mightn't be such an issue... but the Wallabies don't have that.

 

[Micheal]

Watching the game now, its been very entertaining so far and the Wallabies look much improved.


Timani looks very much at home and all is going well so far. Tackling like a mad man and he had a particularly great hit up in the midfield. Genia’s his great self but his kicking name really needs to be addressed. A horrible box kick and a charge down. I would not be upset if he never kicked the ball in Gold ever again.

DHP is having a great game again. Folau is looking threatening and Kerevi is absolutely killing it. What a player. I’m anxiously hoping Simone continues his electric form into Super rugby so next year we can see Cooper at 10, Simone at 12 and Kerevi at 13.

The Wallabies discipline is appalling. Whilst having some tall timber in the pack is helpful from a lineout point of view (it certainly seemed to be improved), but jesus christ high-tackles were an epidemic out there. Not sure about Hoopers card. It seemed a bit soft and a warning / penalty would have done.

The forward pack really lifted in intensity through, and I like the look of Coleman / Arnold / Timani as 4,5 and 8. I don’t think we missed Pocock too much at all.

Not sure about Hodge on the wing. I’d say Cheika has to choose between him and Foley and play them at 12. I’d like to see a true finisher on one wing (Naivalu) with some speed. This year we have made so many breaks we just need someone with some serious toe to be there in support for a pass / offload and we could have scored up to a dozen more tries over the RC. Kurtley Beale used to be fantastic at this and we’re lacking that right now.

For all the flack he cops I don’t think Mumms been too bad. Yes he missed a few tackles but stats only say so much - hes shot up from quick lineouts and applied pressure only to be stepped etc. I’d still like to see Fardy work his way into the team or for someone like Dempsey to be given a chance however as I think Mumm offers nowhere near the amount of impact we want from a 6 at test level (compare Mumm to Kaino). He's a powderpuff but not quite the powderpuff some make him out to be.

Likewise I think the Foley / Cooper axis is working quite well and I don’t think people notice the little things Foley does around to field to create space for Cooper (and likewise Cooper for Foley). By sliding into first receiver he often gives the ball to Quade wider which allows him more space / options to work with. He's also had a couple deft touches.

Coopers defended really well - going around the legs on a few occassions which hes often hesitant to do. Also provided a bit in attack but I wish he’d use the option of putting the ball through the hands instead of throwing cut outs a bit more. The cross-field kick to Hodge also wasn’t the right option IMO but its nice to see a Wallabies flyhalf mixing up the point of attack (as the ABs have done so well recently).

Hooper is fantastic as usual. I definitely prefer the traditional 6 / 7 / 8 balance we had this game.

From what I can tell, this team (as they have shown throughout all of the England series and the RC) are a team not too far off being a real force. We have patches of superb play and then fall asleep for patches as our structure goes to shit and our discipline deteriorates.

But its bed time for me now. The second half will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Hooper was the same and was close to MotM for mine. His leg drive in the tackle and presence over the ball was very good in the absence of Pocock. He didn't win any turnovers but we did get some breakdown penalties, as well as slowing their ball down.

Will have to correct you there TBH> Hooper certainly did make a steal (or won a penalty when a steal was on) shortly after returning to the game from his YC. May actually have made more, but that one I remember.

I also agree that we didn't miss Poey, because Hooper played like a 7, tackling anything within range, hitting rucks and putting pressure on the opposition. Not a whisker between them when they play like that. Great to have a proper No 8 in the side. Will be a bit of a quandry when McMahon is back. How to choose between Timani, Houston and McMahon.

 

[fatprop]

Will have to correct you there TBH> Hooper certainly did make a steal (or won a penalty when a steal was on) shortly after returning to the game from his YC. May actually have made more, but that one I remember.

I also agree that we didn't miss Poey, because Hooper played like a 7, tackling anything within range, hitting rucks and putting pressure on the opposition. Not a whisker between them when they play like that. Great to have a proper No 8 in the side. Will be a bit of a quandry when McMahon is back. How to choose between Timani, Houston and McMahon.

It is sort of like he plays to the game plan and his role within that plan

 

[fatprop]

Timani looks very much at home and all is going well so far. Tackling like a mad man and he had a particularly great hit up in the midfield.

My concern with him will be in the spot light in the next game, I expect the AB's to throw a lot more pressure at him, a big barging islander backrower is nothing new to them, but in this game he was solid

The Wallabies discipline is appalling. Whilst having some tall timber in the pack is helpful from a lineout point of view (it certainly seemed to be improved), but jesus christ high-tackles were an epidemic out there. Not sure about Hoopers card. It seemed a bit soft and a warning / penalty would have done.

It looked pretty clear that the plan was to tackle higher to stop off loads. It just wasn't executed well enough

Not sure about Hodge on the wing. I’d say Cheika has to choose between him and Foley and play them at 12. I’d like to see a true finisher on one wing (Naivalu) with some speed. This year we have made so many breaks we just need someone with some serious toe to be there in support for a pass / offload and we could have scored up to a dozen more tries over the RC.

Hodge is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) lke, very solid, very safe but he is never going to be a consistent threat on kick return

For all the flack he cops I don’t think Mumms been too bad. Yes he missed a few tackles but stats only say so much - hes shot up from quick lineouts and applied pressure only to be stepped etc. I’d still like to see Fardy work his way into the team or for someone like Dempsey to be given a chance however as I think Mumm offers nowhere near the amount of impact we want from a 6 at test level (compare Mumm to Kaino). He's a powderpuff but not quite the powderpuff some make him out to be.

Mumm has never been more than a tradesman, he makes many smart decisions and plays a role, but like many others (Reuban Thorne etc) because he isn't explosive or dynamic his position is always under speculation

Likewise I think the Foley / Cooper axis is working quite well and I don’t think people notice the little things Foley does around to field to create space for Cooper (and likewise Cooper for Foley). By sliding into first receiver he often gives the ball to Quade wider which allows him more space / options to work with. He's also had a couple deft touches.

again Foley is what I call a tradesman, he does what he does every match, he makes many great decisions throughout matches that make his team better, but he doesn't throw the miracle ball or kick that 15m further and as such his position is always under speculation

The major difference over the past few weeks and our play to me is that we aren't playing the AB's or a resurgent England

They are just a step too far at the moment and we peaked at the RWC

 

[Brumby Runner]

It is sort of like he plays to the game plan and his role within that plan

Most likely FP, but I like his role being to play as a No 7 not some contrived amalgamation of 7/8.

 

[fatprop]

Most likely FP, but I like his role being to play as a No 7 not some contrived amalgamation of 7/8.

It just depends on the backrow configuration, with Pocock at 8 it makes sense for him to be the on-baller (his key strength) and allow Hooper be the ball runner out wider, not Pocock's key strength

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^^^ a good explanation of why the Pooper doesn't always work. Either one of Pocock or Hooper playing as a No 7 with a No 8 like Timani/Houston/Holloway will usually be a better back row combination imo.

 

[Viking]

It just depends on the backrow configuration, with Pocock at 8 it makes sense for him to be the on-baller (his key strength) and allow Hooper be the ball runner out wider, not Pocock's key strength

He didn't play the 7 on-the-baller role with McMahon at 8 which I thought was strange - and costly.

 

[Twoilms]

Hoopers ability to play both and tighter and looser, both very effectively, for 80 minutes combined with his durability make him one of the best assets the wallabies have. Puts the calls for him to be dropped at the start of the season in perspective.

 

[fatprop]

^^^^^^ a good explanation of why the Pooper doesn't always work. Either one of Pocock or Hooper playing as a No 7 with a No 8 like Timani/Houston/Holloway will usually be a better back row combination imo.

I again disagree, Pocock\Hooper is still a better combination of talent today than one of Pocock or Hooper with any of Timani/Houston/Holloway.

 

[fatprop]

He didn't play the 7 on-the-baller role with McMahon at 8 which I thought was strange - and costly.

Again, we don't know the instructions in the game plan, both McMahon and Hooper do it when instructed

But I don't think that lost us that game

 

[Viking]

Again, we don't know the instructions in the game plan, both McMahon and Hooper do it when instructed

But I don't think that lost us that game

I don't rate McMahon in that role, but I do Hooper - which is why I thought it was strange.

 

[Rugbybloke123]

With all this chat on the back row... Thoughts of a back row consisting of McMahon 6, Hooper 7 and Pocock 8 (when they are all fit of course). If done well it could be entertaining and a huge huge threat to any team.

 

[wamberal]

With all this chat on the back row. Thoughts of a back row consisting of McMahon 6, Hooper 7 and Pocock 8 (when they are all fit of course). If done well it could be entertaining and a huge huge threat to any team.

Any team of midgets, sure. But against a team of actual Test players, it would be a huge threat to our chances of winning.


We need to compete in the flippin' lineouts. I know it is boring, but it is true.

 

[Rugbybloke123]

Yes of course, however on the weekend Argentinas locks stood at 192 and 196 cm and with hooper and mcmahon both at around 187 they could be a third option with both of australis locks being 204,208 standing well above the other locks on the weekend. However against NZ and SA its a different story, if we need another jumper just throw in Folau - he's not doing much at the back (only joking about him jumping). However yes it is a large hypothetical and unlikely to happen!

 

[Scrubber2050]

A win is a win - great but still not convincing to me

Big moments for me.

7 pointer to Coleman that shouldn't have been given
Argies missed 3 kickable shots equalling 8 points.
Scrum was terrible and not helped by Ref. Tighthead to Argies.
Lack of discipline (but the high shots may have been a strategy (as made by the commentators to stop the quick offloads)
Did Sio and Keps make any carries at all.
Locks of missed tackles.
Genia's shit kick (even though he was there to make it anyway)
Kerevi is a beast with ball in hand but offload skills down a bit,
Moore's play has improved in the last couple of matches.
Timani was pretty good and looks like a real 8.
Folau's form remains consistent.
The Phipps penalty was just laughable

The performance wasn't great, the win was.

 

[boyo]

Discipline.
No point in giving the opposition a kickable penalty.