Proposed Nations Championship
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
- Start date
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Pretty much.
Although part of the flavour suggested by the Geerob SMH article linked by barbarian above was that promotion and relegation would exist between a 2nd Division consisting of teams from:
- Pacific Nations Cup – including Canada, Samoa, Tonga and the USA) +
- Americas Championship – which includes Chile, Uruguay and Brazil.
Yeah, that's right … none of them are European nations.
That's because there will be no promotion/relegation for the 6N anytime in our living days (those turkeys don't vote for xmas, mate).
I'll happily issue an apology if I'm wrong on this.
So, if I'm not mistaken, promotion and relegation will be in the non-6N conference only – our conference.
In other words, every year the last-placed team in our round-robin (probably Japan first up … unless the Wallaby slide really goes into a spiral before this concept receives the go ahead) … will get the boot. Maybe they make it every second year based an overall results or some such but, still, a team will be relegated.
This is part of the reason why I don't believe Japan – and for that matter, Fiji – will be formally joining SANZAAR (or a "SANZFIJAAR") and The Rugby Championship.
Depending on how this is negotiated, SANZAAR's job might end up being mainly SuperRugby, in any case.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
It is also a reason why I think SANZAAR countries would be keen to keep some extra tests up their sleeve – I'm going to call these matches the Trinations … humour me, okay – that are OUTSIDE the League of Nations.
Let's say 5-10 years down the track that Fiji and the United States become genuine Top 8 contenders.
There is a future possibility that Argentina, Australia, or South Africa could be relegated.
If there are NO tests other than those within LoN then relegation could be financially catastrophic for these SANZAAR nations.
Let's say 5-10 years down the track that Fiji and the United States become genuine Top 8 contenders.
There is a future possibility that Argentina, Australia, or South Africa could be relegated.
If there are NO tests other than those within LoN then relegation could be financially catastrophic for these SANZAAR nations.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Italy, Scotland (and England) never need concern themselves with relegation.
It's not the done thing for 6N members. The font of western civilization and the birthplace rugby itself!
Best to confine that sort of nonsense to colonial types.
Bandar
Bob Loudon (25)
I did read somewhere one proposal was a relegation playoff between the winner of the European 2nd division and the last team in the 6 nations.
I hope that's the case for both pools.
Longer term it will be interesting to see where everyone fits - do we go with a North v South or Europe v the rest model?
I hope that's the case for both pools.
Longer term it will be interesting to see where everyone fits - do we go with a North v South or Europe v the rest model?
Rebels3
Jim Lenehan (48)
The gulf between the established sides and the emerging sides is still rather large, maybe not over a 1 game sample but especially over an 11 game season. One of Japan, Italy and Fiji would be poor enough performers over the year that it would give the established nations enough confidence that they aren't going to be relegated anytime in the next 10yrs. Even if Italy produced the quality of players they were in the 90s, Fiji continue to improve and Japan continues to build, not all 3 countries would be on an upward trajection at the same time. Beyond that 10yr span, things could be completely different, hopefully by that stage emerging Rugby countries continue to grow and their markets would be able to in some way provide some financial windfall, the most likely option however could be a soccer style parachute payment system, where the relegated team is given 1/2yrs worth of financial assistance to help with the reduced revenue.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
The second one. Take it to the bank.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Maybe. Okay, let's say Georgia, for example, beat Italy in such a playoff.
This means the other 5 sides in the 6N would each have to play Georgia in the next comp.
But Italy still remains in the 6N. The traditional six nations aren't going to agree to relegation within their own tournament (maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see it). Five additional slots in the calendar will need to be found for these Georgia games playing the 5N sides. Those won't fit in the 6N window. Will national players need releases?
The difference with the non-6N version would seem to be that if Japan was relegated for United States, say, then the Sanzaar+1 could simply play the US instead of Japan.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Correct. It's been mooted before and shot down before it ever gained any traction. England will never agree to it.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Agree here Kiap, but are the 6N games going to be played as qualifying games? If not won't matter. I thought the game were to be played instead seperately, but admit to not having read much, because untile there is more info most of what I have seen is guess work by reporters etc, who all seem to put their own spin on it depending on whether they want it or not.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
If we could get relegation / promotion for both 6N and RC that would be the gamechanger to make the concept truly appealing and workable. For me as an example I love the 6N but also agree that having Italy's place never threatened (and never seen any significant improvement from them since they joined cf with other tier 2 European nations like Georgia). But yes I can see how from ST perspective the traditional 6N heavy weights would not support it but if part of condition for more attractive World League concept maybe the bargaining chip to get this change. As yes ok Georgia not economically attractive country to have join 6N but think long term and change Georgia to a Germany or a Spain maybe it could be.
I personally love the concept as laid out but yes few hurdles I suspect to conquer as notable no mention of division 2 European countries in the article.....
I personally love the concept as laid out but yes few hurdles I suspect to conquer as notable no mention of division 2 European countries in the article.....
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Dan my understanding is 6N and RC is whole concept of conference system for World League and only way it can work re: increase RC to 6 teams and we have our South vs North conferences. With of course relegation / promotion. Only way world league could work.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
I think 6N games would count as qualifying games.
Players are contracted to clubs. The number of test matches countries can play - where players are away from their clubs - is limited.
I look at this from a calendar perspective. Add up the number of tests a country would play in a year.
There might be a small amount of leeway for tier 1 countries to add a test match or two - but there wouldn't be scope for much more than that. It's close to max as it is.
The ABs playing 14 tests last year (one of them was as a 'B' team). I think 6N teams play 12-13. How many separate games can they add on?
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Didn't take long this time either:
Six Nations boss rules out relegation after proposed global league plans emerge
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
If relegation isn't applied across the board then there's no point in any of it. I'd honestly prefer if the RC was either expanded to 5 or 6 (Japan and/or Fiji) and a 6 team 2nd div was formed involving the US, Canada, Tonga, Samoa and Uruguay with promotion/relegation in place.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Yeah, although I guess there could still be a narrow window of opportunity to have promo-relegation for the Euro conference of the Nations Championship ... but not relegate from the 6N. It might not be easy, as I mentioned in #150
Seems alright. Not too different from what was in the news a few days ago?