Proposed Nations Championship

[Derpus]

Can’t see that actually happening, Italy owns one seventh of the 6 nations valued at £365,000,000. South Africa would have to buy them out and I doubt they have the money

Interest rates are pretty low.

 

[Rebel man]

Interest rates are pretty low.

It’s still 7,460,534,300 Rand that they will have to borrow, it’s a lot of money for a union with financial issues

 

[Derpus]

It’s still 7,460,534,300 Rand that they will have to borrow, it’s a lot of money for a union with financial issues

I guess. But then they go to the financial institution of their choice and point at all the dollarydoos they will make playing in the 6 Nations and everyone walks away happy.

 

[Adam84]

Can’t see that actually happening, Italy owns one seventh of the 6 nations valued at £365,000,000. South Africa would have to buy them out and I doubt they have the money

depends what the voting requirements are, Italy could be voted out and South Africa included as a participant, doesn’t mean South Africa will take an ownership stake, or Italy sell theirs.

 

[Derpus]

depends what the voting requirements are, Italy could be voted out and South Africa included as a participant, doesn’t mean South Africa will take an ownership stake, or Italy sell theirs.

It would be an odd constitution if owners were able to be excluded from participation by popular vote.

England should have been voted out years ago.

 

[Adam84]

It would be an odd constitution if owners were able to be excluded from participation by popular vote.

England should have been voted out years ago.

It might just be a certain threshold of votes required and not unanimous, which wouldn’t be unusual. It would have been redrafted last year as part of the private equity stake as well. Italy certainly aren’t going to vote themselves out. Nor would buying a ownership stake be a requirement for participation.

Could be left with the scenario of Italy receiving a 1/7 share of revenue but not participating.

 

[Rebel man]

It might just be a certain threshold of votes required and not unanimous, which wouldn’t be unusual. It would have been redrafted last year as part of the private equity stake as well. Italy certainly aren’t going to vote themselves out. Nor would buying a ownership stake be a requirement for participation.

Could be left with the scenario of Italy receiving a 1/7 share of revenue but not participating.

Well not really, South Africa will only make the move it it’s in their best financial interest

If the 6 home nations and CVC divide the revenue 7 ways between then South Africa play in the comp help grow the value of the comp and don’t make money off it. Only way Italy would give up their slice of the pie and spot in the tournament is if they are brought out

 

[Adam84]

Well not really, South Africa will only make the move it it’s in their best financial interest

If the 6 home nations and CVC divide the revenue 7 ways between then South Africa play in the comp help grow the value of the comp and don’t make money off it. Only way Italy would give up their slice of the pie and spot in the tournament is if they are brought out

not really, but without seeing the details of how they’ve structured the PE deal it’a difficult to state. It could simply be a participation fee paid to teams seperate to any revenue distribution.

In terms of adding value, South Africa broadcasters would immediately pay more for the broadcast rights, which would more then offset any decline from Italy leaving.

Whether the agreement is that SARU takes all value for selling the rights in South Africa, or 6 Nations sell them and pay them a share of overall rights. Shit, they could even issue more equity and everyone ends with a 1/8 share. There’s a million ways to skin the cat which see all parties(except Italy) making more in this deal then previous.

 

[Rebel man]

not really, but without seeing the details of how they’ve structured the PE deal it’a difficult to state. It could simply be a participation fee paid to teams seperate to any revenue distribution.

In terms of adding value, South Africa broadcasters would immediately pay more for the broadcast rights, which would more then offset any decline from Italy leaving.

Whether the agreement is that SARU takes all value for selling the rights in South Africa, or 6 Nations sell them and pay them a share of overall rights. Shit, they could even issue more equity and everyone ends with a 1/8 share. There’s a million ways to skin the cat which see all parties(except Italy) making more in this deal then previous.

What’s reported is the all own an even share and the revenue gets divided accordingly.

I don’t think South Africa to the 6 nations happens

In the long run I think it’s better for Aus and NZ to part ways with South Africa and move towards a regional competition

 

[Adam84]

What’s reported is the all own an even share and the revenue gets divided accordingly.

I don’t think South Africa to the 6 nations happens

In the long run I think it’s better for Aus and NZ to part ways with South Africa and move towards a regional competition

that’s what exists now.. Amendments can be made(they did last year for PE), participation grants on teams outside of the existing group could easily be included, SARU could take ownership of rights sold in South Africa, or issue more equity making it a 1/8 share for all parties.

The idea mightn’t eventuate, but I’m confident generating additional revenue for all parties won’t be the reason why, it’ll be some other European political complexity.

 

[Rebel man]

that’s what exists now.. Amendments can be made(they did last year for PE), participation grants on teams outside of the existing group could easily be included, SARU could take ownership of rights sold in South Africa, or issue more equity making it a 1/8 share for all parties.

The idea mightn’t eventuate, but I’m confident generating additional revenue for all parties won’t be the reason why, it’ll be some other European political complexity.

They aren’t just going to hand 1/8th of the revenue to South Africa

No way if they want Italy out will the keep paying them for not playing

I think this is more to force through the nations championship if anything

 

[Adam84]

They aren’t just going to hand 1/8th of the revenue to South Africa

No way if they want Italy out will the keep paying them for not playing

I think this is more to force through the nations championship if anything

They aren’t, it would be the equivalent of a merger and It happens all the time in business deals.

If the assessed value of the merger generates proportionately more value then the dilution of equity then it’s financially beneficial to do so. But like I said, there are a multiple of other options they could go down which benefit all teams financially. That’s just one

If a Italy are part owner, they’re entitled to their share. Similar things have happened in other sports, NBA paid a team a share of revenue who didn’t play for 30 years.

My point is, South Africa aren’t paying $350million to participate(whatever figure you said), and financially there are plenty of lucrative options to achieve the outcome of Boks participating In 6 Nations.

 

[Rebel man]

They aren’t, it would be the equivalent of a merger and It happens all the time in business deals.

If the assessed value of the merger generates proportionately more value then the dilution of equity then it’s financially beneficial to do so. But like I said, there are a multiple of other options they could go down which benefit all teams financially. That’s just one

If a Italy are part owner, they’re entitled to their share. Similar things have happened in other sports, NBA paid a team a share of revenue who didn’t play for 30 years.

My point is, South Africa aren’t paying $350million to participate(whatever figure you said), and financially there are plenty of lucrative options to achieve the outcome of Boks participating In 6 Nations.

Italy aren’t just going to give up their spot and the other nations aren’t just going to hand South Africa a share of ownership, Italy have just started to develop their youth pathways and pro rugby in Italy. They aren’t about to just stand by and go back to playing semi pro sides.

The value has to rise by 15% just to break even

It also screws up the northern nations push the revive the nations championship

 

[Rebel man]

So, the Boks want to join the Six Nations ... could it really happen?

A report this week suggest South Africa was closer than ever to joining the Six Nations, potentially at Italy's expense. But could it really happen and is this what the international game really needs?

www.espn.com.au

This article states a vote to dump Italy from the 6 Nations has to be unanimous

 

[Adam84]

Italy aren’t just going to give up their spot and the other nations aren’t just going to hand South Africa a share of ownership, Italy have just started to develop their youth pathways and pro rugby in Italy. They aren’t about to just stand by and go back to playing semi pro sides.

The value has to rise by 15% just to break even

It also screws up the northern nations push the revive the nations championship

Yes like I said European politics which will likely prevent it happening, this isn’t a question of financial viability.

15% assuming all things stay the same really isn’t that much given what’s on offer, and I’ll repeat that’s only one means that South Africa could be included in the 6 Nations and benefit financially.

6 Nations will always be the priority for European unions over a nations championship, they’ve already demonstrated that once.

 

[Rebel man]

Yes like I said European politics which will likely prevent it happening, this isn’t a question of financial viability.

15% assuming all things stay the same really isn’t that much given what’s on offer, and I’ll repeat that’s only one means that South Africa could be included in the 6 Nations and benefit financially.

6 Nations will always be the priority for European unions over a nations championship, they’ve already demonstrated that once.

So how are 5 European unions and South Africa going to get Italy to vote themselves out?

 

[Adam84]

So how are 5 European unions and South Africa going to get Italy to vote themselves out?

@Rebel man I’ve been replying to your comments about the financial viability/structure of the concept, and have repeatedly said European rugby politics is the reason it won’t happen.

Financially it’s a viable concept and wouldn't require South Africa paying $350million, practically we aren’t privy to the politics of how that unlikely scenario may happen.

 

[Rebel man]

@Rebel man I’ve been replying to your comments about the financial viability/structure of the concept, and have repeatedly said European rugby politics is the reason it won’t happen.

Fincancially it’s a viable concept, and doesn’t require South Africa paying $350milliom, practically we aren’t privy to the politics of how that unlikely scenario may happen.

But that’s why I made the point they will have to buy them out. How else are you going to get rid of Italy? Italy aren’t going to vote themselves out if they don’t get paid. South Africa doesn’t have the money to buy them out.

Yes South Africa makes the 6 nations a better product and the South African TV market would generate more revenue than the Italian and yes the UK and French markets would pay more for games involving South Africa but Italy isn’t just going to hand over the keys to the Ferrari to South Africa

 

[Adam84]

But that’s why I made the point they will have to buy them out. How else are you going to get rid of Italy? Italy aren’t going to vote themselves out if they don’t get paid. South Africa doesn’t have the money to buy them out.

Yes South Africa makes the 6 nations a better product and the South African TV market would generate more revenue than the Italian and yes the UK and French markets would pay more for games involving South Africa but Italy isn’t just going to hand over the keys to the Ferrari to South Africa

Please read previous post, already mentioned how the financial structure could occur. South Africa won’t be buying out Italy, there’s a dozen other financially plausible options instead.

Furthermore Italy stands to lose even more by been ‘bought out’ as you suggested, they’re financially better off retaining an ownership stake in a growing product.

How the politics of European rugby play that one out is beyond us. On that note, at risk of repeating further, have a good night I’m settling in for Super Rugby.

 

[liquor box]

Can’t see that actually happening, Italy owns one seventh of the 6 nations valued at £365,000,000. South Africa would have to buy them out and I doubt they have the money

£60,833,333.33 for their share.

Would six nations fans travel to game as regularly as other test match series?

If you think how much money governments pay for tourism opportunities and to support tours like the Lions tours (I am not directly comparing Lions to 6N) and other inbound tours from lesser nations then a single payoff to ensure more visiting teams and their supporters every year then the price seems pretty cheap to me.