Professional Rugby set for the USA

[WorkingClassRugger]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/01/09/is-professional-rugby-finally-about-to-emerge-in-the-usa/

A little more info above

Check the author of the piece and the one that started this thread.

 

[p.Tah]

Check the author of the piece and the one that started this thread.

Bloody hell, what are the chances of two people choosing such a unique name

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Bloody hell, what are the chances of two people choosing such a unique name

Great minds think alike.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

They can have the season across the whole of the continent provided they are able to start it in april/early may and end no later than October/November. that provides a fairly long season and means games could be played in new york, toronto, denver etc. the length means that they could also accommodate an international window for the North American inbound tests. if the rumoured locations are correct (including calgary, salt lake, and denver) the season will have an april start.

If there are two canadian teams, the will be going to two of the following cities: Vancouver, Calgary and Victoria. if the season will accommodate calgary, I would bet a team will be going there along with vancouver.
Canada has a semi-professional system up and running and as we know from recent news, the USA is about to get theirs going.

the oil money from calgary and the real estate money from vancouver that backs rugby is significant. Victoria, while a city of only 370,000, is the heart of rugby in canada and there are enough millionaire businessmen and real estate developers there, who are rugby tragics, to support a team. i've heard rumours that there are plans a foot to redevelop victoria's royal athletic park into a permanent seating stadium of 15,000 and to upgrade the facilities . These are fairly new rumours so perhaps it is linked. Vancouver team would probably play out of Empire Stadium in East Van - a 20,000 capacity stadium specific for rectangular sports. it was recently refurbished to accommode the CFL's BC Lions whilst BC Place Stadium was getting refurbished.

I think the western focus is critical given the extensive costs of operating in north america. ultimately, the middle of north america doesn't much play the game. the western half in both countries is where the game has its largest following with a few exceptions (notably newfoundland in canada...a canadian tasmania that is fanatical for its rugby)

In terms of numbers i think that they really need to get Toronto involved would you agree? I know that it's stronger in the west of Canada and everyone hates Toronto (leafs suck btw) it would be terrible if they didn't have a team representing where populations are strong. From what i could see Ontario was holding their own of late against BC and they get bugger all time to be outdoors.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think they are looking to establish in strongholds of the game to best ensure support and commercial success. In time and hopefully not too long they could move into other regions such as Toronto. It all depends on each franchises ability to prove their business cases from what I am told.

 

[Jets]

You would think with Rugby Canada basing all of their Performance facilities in Victoria they would look at using these in any pro team set up. I guess their issue would be a ground to play out of. Not sure there is one on the Island.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

In terms of numbers i think that they really need to get Toronto involved would you agree? I know that it's stronger in the west of Canada and everyone hates Toronto (leafs suck btw) it would be terrible if they didn't have a team representing where populations are strong. From what i could see Ontario was holding their own of late against BC and they get bugger all time to be outdoors.

Toronto would be key in the future. Its a city of 4M people. The first major test with proper advertising took place in toronto last summer, they got a little over 10,000 fans to BMO stadium which is built specifically for soccer and thus rugby. That was a test against the USA.
I just neglected it on the basis that the league apparently has a west coast focus.
they can play outdoors in toronto from april - November...consistentlly you'd say mid april to mid november. that's a 7 month season which....take out a 4 week international window...and its 6 months for a total of 24 weeks of play. I would bet they would start the season up in mid May. play till mid july. have a three or four week international break and pick up again mid august to play for another 5 weeks or so.

The issue for vancouver and toronto teams will be that they'll be competiting against CFL and the new MLS franchises which are attracting very good attendances (both averaging 19,000 plus per game). the CFL starts mid june though so to the extent they can get going before CFL starts, that's a good thing. the soccer crowd is probably a different crowd or not such a competing crowd. that said, CFL is a bit of a joke of a game. its popularity is fading from what i understand in toronto, while in vancouver it attracts strong crowds...avg 20,000 and change.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Toronto would be key in the future. Its a city of 4M people. The first major test with proper advertising took place in toronto last summer, they got a little over 10,000 fans to BMO stadium which is built specifically for soccer and thus rugby. That was a test against the USA.
I just neglected it on the basis that the league apparently has a west coast focus.
they can play outdoors in toronto from april - November...consistentlly you'd say mid april to mid november. that's a 7 month season which....take out a 4 week international window...and its 6 months for a total of 24 weeks of play. I would bet they would start the season up in mid May. play till mid july. have a three or four week international break and pick up again mid august to play for another 5 weeks or so.

The issue for vancouver and toronto teams will be that they'll be competiting against CFL and the new MLS franchises which are attracting very good attendances (both averaging 19,000 plus per game). the CFL starts mid june though so to the extent they can get going before CFL starts, that's a good thing. the soccer crowd is probably a different crowd or not such a competing crowd. that said, CFL is a bit of a joke of a game. its popularity is fading from what i understand in toronto, while in vancouver it attracts strong crowds...avg 20,000 and change.

I feel that Toronto would be a good base. For a team, biggest city. They would still attract fans from all over the east of Canada. Not to mention that most of Canada's population lives right next door to Toronto also.

I don't think that the competition needs to be a big one. One similar in length to S15 would be sufficient methinks.

 

[spooony]

Rugby Union.

Aah thx.
Wonder if they will change the game a bit like they did with football. You know Americans don't like draws.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

toronto is big and would draw crowds, but wouldn't draw crowds from the rest of eastern canada. its too far from ottawa and montreal and miles from the eastern coast.
again though, if its a western focused league. Tdot won't be in the cards. however it should be in the future as they are wanting to base a lot of the national team games out of there.

i'd hope for a shorter season as well.

Victoria has royal athletic park which is a permanent 5,000 seat facility. i believe they are looking at upgrading it to a roughly 15,000 person capacity stadium. it is right downtown as well so fits. agree it would make sense for a vic based team given that we now have the Canadian Rugby Centre for Excellence based out of Langford (20 minutes out of victoria).

I'm hoping for Victoria and Van - would be a great rivalry - but i'm thinking it will be vancouver and calgary.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Aah thx.
Wonder if they will change the game a bit like they did with football. You know Americans don't like draws.

Good point. But then again neither do mungoes.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

toronto is big and would draw crowds, but wouldn't draw crowds from the rest of eastern canada. its too far from ottawa and montreal and miles from the eastern coast.
again though, if its a western focused league. Tdot won't be in the cards. however it should be in the future as they are wanting to base a lot of the national team games out of there.

i'd hope for a shorter season as well.

Victoria has royal athletic park which is a permanent 5,000 seat facility. i believe they are looking at upgrading it to a roughly 15,000 person capacity stadium. it is right downtown as well so fits. agree it would make sense for a vic based team given that we now have the Canadian Rugby Centre for Excellence based out of Langford (20 minutes out of victoria).

I'm hoping for Victoria and Van - would be a great rivalry - but i'm thinking it will be vancouver and calgary.

I remember reading some stats that there was more players in Ontario than out west. I am guessing that the Universities have something to do with this also.

 

[spooony]

Good point. But then again neither do mungoes.

Sure your going to see overtimes in those games

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Sure your going to see overtimes in those games

Little confused. Overtime = golden point

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I remember reading some stats that there was more players in Ontario than out west. I am guessing that the Universities have something to do with this also.

wouldn't surprise me. London, Mcmaster, Queens and Uof T all have strong uni rugby programs and the grass roots game is definitely growing in ontario.

reading the 2010 AGM report, B.C has 5,500 registered players while ontario has over 9,000....that is a significant figure by any standards (both figures include all registered players/refs/coaches) B.C has a population of 4.5M whilst ontario has over 13M.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

wouldn't surprise me. London, Mcmaster, Queens and Uof T all have strong uni rugby programs and the grass roots game is definitely growing in ontario.

reading the 2010 AGM report, B.C has 5,500 registered players while ontario has over 9,000....that is a significant figure by any standards (both figures include all registered players/refs/coaches) B.C has a population of 4.5M whilst ontario has over 13M.

It's just a shame that there is only so much time that can be spent outside playing the game otherwise who'd know how many players there possibly could be in eastern Canada.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

while the top league is the B.C premier league, the top level domestically is the Canadian Rugby Championships which is played across canada with a B.C team, Prairie team, Ontario/Quebec team and East Coast representing the maritimes. The eventual plan is for Ontario and Quebec to split into two teams to make it a 5 team provincial competition. they play the CRC in the summer time and the B.C premier league and other leagues are feeders for the CRC. the CRC itself feeds into the national team set up starting with the America's Rugby Championship where the Canada Selects play. From the ARC, the national men's team is picked for the november tours and the incoming tours the following year.

point being, there is a high level domestic competition in place already. Newfoundland, where the Rock are based out of is undergoing an oil boom, which is great for rugby because they will be able to attract players to live there year round with high paying jobs. This allows them to stay there and train there, rather than migrating back and forth from B.C to Nfld.

this has all been slightly off topic, but the point is that there is a national set up in place in canada which feeds into the national team and will feed into any professional teams quite well. I think the canadian set up is better suited to deal with the advancements of the game, than the current american one. my understanding is the states are struggling with why they are behind us despite having 4 times as many registered players, and, as a result, they are looking to adopt a system more similar to ours.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

while the top league is the B.C premier league, the top level domestically is the Canadian Rugby Championships which is played across canada with a B.C team, Prairie team, Ontario/Quebec team and East Coast representing the maritimes. The eventual plan is for Ontario and Quebec to split into two teams to make it a 5 team provincial competition. they play the CRC in the summer time and the B.C premier league and other leagues are feeders for the CRC. the CRC itself feeds into the national team set up starting with the America's Rugby Championship where the Canada Selects play. From the ARC, the national men's team is picked for the november tours and the incoming tours the following year.

point being, there is a high level domestic competition in place already. Newfoundland, where the Rock are based out of is undergoing an oil boom, which is great for rugby because they will be able to attract players to live there year round with high paying jobs. This allows them to stay there and train there, rather than migrating back and forth from B.C to Nfld.

this has all been slightly off topic, but the point is that there is a national set up in place in canada which feeds into the national team and will feed into any professional teams quite well. I think the canadian set up is better suited to deal with the advancements of the game, than the current american one. my understanding is the states are struggling with why they are behind us despite having 4 times as many registered players, and, as a result, they are looking to adopt a system more similar to ours.

That championship stopped and i believe it got picked back up. QC (Quade Cooper), NB and NFLD all play under the Rock banner. Ontario does their own thing.

Canada talk is a little off topic, but i think similar to Hockey Rugby needs both countries to work together to make it succeed.

 

[Polynesian Warriors]

great thread wcr and are there anymore developments from the usa in regards to this new proposed pro comp?

 

[p.Tah]

we now have the Canadian Rugby Centre for Excellence based out of Langford (20 minutes out of victoria).

I've just been reading out about this. Sounds very impressive

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Rugby+Canada+unveils+digs+Langford/6029935/story.html

On another note I spent the week with 400 Canadians at a meeting. I was surprised how many of them had a connection with rugby. From guys whose daughters play at college to those who played 7s back in the 70s. A number of them had taken to the game since watching Canada play at the RWC.