waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
If you support them, why are you wasting your time?
So you want there basic skill level to increase, what else do you want to make the team worth your time?
Pressure on the Waratahs to make the Finals
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If you support them, why are you wasting your time?
So you want there basic skill level to increase, what else do you want to make the team worth your time?
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Good luck to you WJ, I like that you can unconditionally support these guys.
I cannot.
Despite what M Burke thinks, and despite what stats Hickey wants to quote, we the great unwashed know they are dishing up muck.
It is no coincidence that that they set a record for a shit crowd last week, they can keep having forums trying to spin things and blame the opposition & injuries. but until they start making BIG calls on key personnel then nothing will change.
That's what shits me, cos I know there is no one there with an appetite to change anything of significance there and we will meander along until there is a major crises in another one or two years.Then it will be a two or three year workout plan to be where we should be now!
We have the biggest fucking nursery and the least skillful footballers, how does that work?
But I am glad you are happy, shame you don't have 40,000 like minded mates.
I cannot.
Despite what M Burke thinks, and despite what stats Hickey wants to quote, we the great unwashed know they are dishing up muck.
It is no coincidence that that they set a record for a shit crowd last week, they can keep having forums trying to spin things and blame the opposition & injuries. but until they start making BIG calls on key personnel then nothing will change.
That's what shits me, cos I know there is no one there with an appetite to change anything of significance there and we will meander along until there is a major crises in another one or two years.Then it will be a two or three year workout plan to be where we should be now!
We have the biggest fucking nursery and the least skillful footballers, how does that work?
But I am glad you are happy, shame you don't have 40,000 like minded mates.
Nusadan
Chilla Wilson (44)
Some Freudian slip there, WJ?
WJ
I can cope with my side losing, always have been able to, as long as they go down swinging.
And that isn't about staying close by holding onto the ball and doing nothing, it is about having a go and trying to win.
They seem afraid to make mistakes and when a team gets into that mindset, the risks needed to change games don't get taken.
I can cope with my side losing, always have been able to, as long as they go down swinging.
And that isn't about staying close by holding onto the ball and doing nothing, it is about having a go and trying to win.
They seem afraid to make mistakes and when a team gets into that mindset, the risks needed to change games don't get taken.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
And, long term, the focus becomes acceptable performances rather than exceptional ones.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
actually intentional, glad someone caught it!
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
its not that i unconditionally support them at all, ive been dissapointed this year, ive been dissapointed many years, im a tahs fan. i just think besides the cheetahs game that the boys have put in a pretty good effort this season. People keep talking about taking risks and thats fine, but if they did and it didnt pay off you would be on here complaining they got beaten by 20 instead of 6 on the weekend, in the end, paki not holding onto the ball probably cost us the game, its a mistake from beale trying something rather than holding onto it himself, so why then is do you feel let down?
the forum for me and ive jumped sides a couple of times on it will end up being a waste, the main issue for my thinking this way is the type of crowd, i was able to go but ive seen and read enough video and articles and spoken to enough people that where there to realise that 50 year old guys complaining the tahs didnt win every week and that they had to pay to much to sit on the arses at half way and not participate even though they never have will not lead to bigger crowds, its time to target a new set of fans, its time to tap into the 18-35 market and make rugby cool and exclusive from rugby league, the how is hard, but its doable, the 50 year old guy complaining, he is unfortunately expendable.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Fuck the forum WJ, that was just window dressing from the Tahs to say 'they are listening to the fans'
Given that the last home set an all time low for crowd numbers, they first have to understand why people are unhappy before they try & attract a new demographic, because the new crowd will not be repeat customers the way the Tahs are playing.
The tahs can dismiss the views of the 50 yo, but they need to understand why people have stopped going. A crowd of 10,000 is a financial disaster given that number includes members,corporates,season passes & freebies, that does not leave many paying customers
Given that the last home set an all time low for crowd numbers, they first have to understand why people are unhappy before they try & attract a new demographic, because the new crowd will not be repeat customers the way the Tahs are playing.
The tahs can dismiss the views of the 50 yo, but they need to understand why people have stopped going. A crowd of 10,000 is a financial disaster given that number includes members,corporates,season passes & freebies, that does not leave many paying customers
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
the 14000 is a disaster, but if you concentrate on attracting the 50 year olds who have given up back, then are they going to bring a group of ten with them and spend large sums of money, the organisation has to go in a different way, cos those people that spoke in the forums where the elbow patch wearing private schoolboys that drive casual fans crazy.
That is the thing that got me about the forum. A clip I saw was of some 60 year old getting up and starting his question with 'I have not been to a Waratahs game in ten years, and haven't watched a Waratahs game in 5'. At that point he should have been told to shut the fuck up and leave, and give his spot in the forum to an actual fan. I agree with WJ that this is not the market we want to be attracting.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
Probably came along for the sandwiches and biscuits afterwards like all the old buffers who turn up to Company AGMs. I'm allowed to say that, being a gerry myself.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
The forum was a bollocks to begin with. 120 people really is a piss poor sample group of Waratah fans. Take the bloody thing outdoors and accomodate everybody who cares enough to take the time to attend. The whole thing looked so bloody staged that it was never going to be productive.
They players are at the bottom rung of the chain of command (unless you are the Brumbies) so take them away from the equation for a second as they just do what they are told. Start at Hickey and work your way up through the chain of command cleaning out the rubbish. Plain and simple the Tahs need a fresh start.
Reading through this thread it is plainly obvious that the people have spoken. The impression I am getting is that they feel like their loyalty to the Tahs has been taken for granted and the Tahs need to wake up to the fact that it is not a bottomless pit. Not only are the Tahs losing support, they are actually driving them away.
What age has to do with the fans I have no idea but it sounds like plain and utter bull dust that is irrelivent. A Tahs fan is a Tahs fan plain and simple.
They players are at the bottom rung of the chain of command (unless you are the Brumbies) so take them away from the equation for a second as they just do what they are told. Start at Hickey and work your way up through the chain of command cleaning out the rubbish. Plain and simple the Tahs need a fresh start.
Reading through this thread it is plainly obvious that the people have spoken. The impression I am getting is that they feel like their loyalty to the Tahs has been taken for granted and the Tahs need to wake up to the fact that it is not a bottomless pit. Not only are the Tahs losing support, they are actually driving them away.
What age has to do with the fans I have no idea but it sounds like plain and utter bull dust that is irrelivent. A Tahs fan is a Tahs fan plain and simple.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
It has to do with the sample group that the forum accommodated rug go, it has a lot to do with it. The booing came primarily from the expensive seats, which is really fantastic cos it's the only time in about 20 years noise of any kind had come from those seats.
The problem with all the loyalty calls is, ultimately that people are upset we didn't beat the cheetahs, when you. Ask people what they want, the answer comes in the form of the team playing well regardless of opposition or personnel, it's fine,iconsidermyselfa loyal fan and I get upset when the boys don't perform, but other than that cheetahs game I don't believe tahs have played without belief or trying this year and eveninthat game I kno from talking to them after that they where far more upset with themselves than any fan sent jab sent there way.
The problem with all the loyalty calls is, ultimately that people are upset we didn't beat the cheetahs, when you. Ask people what they want, the answer comes in the form of the team playing well regardless of opposition or personnel, it's fine,iconsidermyselfa loyal fan and I get upset when the boys don't perform, but other than that cheetahs game I don't believe tahs have played without belief or trying this year and eveninthat game I kno from talking to them after that they where far more upset with themselves than any fan sent jab sent there way.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
WJ, the 50 yo whingers are not the problem. The missing 10 -15,000 supporters are not in this age group. If anything the 50 yo's bitch & moan but keep going out there.
The Tahs have lost their target demographic.
When you go to a pub on a Saturday night & see a bunch of Colt's players who don't even bother to watch the Tah's for free, there is something wrong.(before you say it ...no the Tahs play before the girls turn up to the pub,so it's not that)
No one says the effort is not there from the players, it is the direction and the "personality"of the side that causes the angst.
The Tahs have lost their target demographic.
When you go to a pub on a Saturday night & see a bunch of Colt's players who don't even bother to watch the Tah's for free, there is something wrong.(before you say it ...no the Tahs play before the girls turn up to the pub,so it's not that)
No one says the effort is not there from the players, it is the direction and the "personality"of the side that causes the angst.
darkhorse
Darby Loudon (17)
That's the sad thing. There is no atmosphere at a tah's game. The old wheelchair brigade don't have the energy to properly support their team and it's infectious. It's been sad a thousand times on here, but everytime I'm there it feels like its frowned down upon to chant or sing for your side.
It's so completely different to schoolboy rugby, where the Crowds are actively barracking for their teams.
As far as tapping into that market its hard to say where to start. I would look at the English Premier League. It's the best supported League of any sport in the World. That's a pretty debatable statement by itself, but as far as fans turning up and making noise its second to none. The average attendance per game is remarkable as well, when those clubs are playing close to 50 games a year. As far as what works for the average punter over there, you'll hear it said pretty regularly is that all they want is to stand in the sun on a saturday arvo and sing.
I would like to see more singing and chants from the crowd. They don't need to be long songs, just something simple to begin with. The 'we are reds' chant made me cringe a little bit to begin with but it has taken off.
And if the crowds are low then give away some free tickets. Hell next Home game invited Scots and their opposition, or any rugby school, to play a curtain raiser game and let any student come for free and parents half-price. Make the condition of acceptance that the schools have to learn a waratahs song or chant for matchday. Let the schoolboys put the armchair brigade to shame.
Is it passionate support that breeds passionate play. Or is it the other way round? It's the egg or the chicken argument really.
I don't know, but I do know at times the Waratahs have played with passion, but I can't remember the last the crowd had any.
jay-c
Ron Walden (29)
ive come across an acticle about managing budgets (accounting) but wow there seems to be some comparisons to what i see happening at the tahs>> hes some bits>(clue: replace the word 'budget' with 'kpi')
"
A rigid budget-ary control style is one in which employees, mostly at management organization levels, are evaluated primarily on whether or not they achieved their budget. When evaluated in this way, managers are held fully accountable for their performance as measured by the budget. This implies that salary,
resources, and career prospects become highly, if not fully, dependent on the managers' ability to meet the budget. Managers who miss the targets
face the prospect of interventions by upper man-agement, the loss of organizational resources, the loss of annual bonuses, and ultimately the loss of
their job (Merchant & Manzoni, 1989). Under these circumstances, managers may look for ways to protect themselves from the downside risk of
missing budget targets and the stigma normally attached to underachievers.
Otley (1978) found that a high emphasis placed on meeting the budget lead to budgets being more closely met
In line with these expectations, the results show that business units that have been more pro®table enjoy more budget fexibility, which provides more leeway for slack creation which, in turn, tends to reduce the pressure for short-term results. Second, this study incorporates competitive strategy as an important element of an organization's context. The ®ndings suggest that di€erentiators are subject to less rigid budgetary controls from upper management allow-ing them to build slack, which seems in line with the ¯exibility required by their strategy to respond e€ectively to changes in their environment.
"
A rigid budget-ary control style is one in which employees, mostly at management organization levels, are evaluated primarily on whether or not they achieved their budget. When evaluated in this way, managers are held fully accountable for their performance as measured by the budget. This implies that salary,
resources, and career prospects become highly, if not fully, dependent on the managers' ability to meet the budget. Managers who miss the targets
face the prospect of interventions by upper man-agement, the loss of organizational resources, the loss of annual bonuses, and ultimately the loss of
their job (Merchant & Manzoni, 1989). Under these circumstances, managers may look for ways to protect themselves from the downside risk of
missing budget targets and the stigma normally attached to underachievers.
Otley (1978) found that a high emphasis placed on meeting the budget lead to budgets being more closely met
In line with these expectations, the results show that business units that have been more pro®table enjoy more budget fexibility, which provides more leeway for slack creation which, in turn, tends to reduce the pressure for short-term results. Second, this study incorporates competitive strategy as an important element of an organization's context. The ®ndings suggest that di€erentiators are subject to less rigid budgetary controls from upper management allow-ing them to build slack, which seems in line with the ¯exibility required by their strategy to respond e€ectively to changes in their environment.
jay-c
Ron Walden (29)
^^^ this leads weight to the idea the tahs will win more games than they lose, reach the semis, achieving their kpi's... but wont go much further than this>>
i think the tahs are playing a forward dominant game that was more a winning style a few years ago and they rely on individual brilliant sparks from a few backs>
it is this reason the tah fans suggest they are playing not to win, but to 'not lose' -
which is a shame cause i think that the tahs have showed they can play good rugby this year> the last two games we have seen them really go for it at times> but in line with the above article id suggest theres to much emphasis on stats and figures and not enough rugby being played
i think the tahs are playing a forward dominant game that was more a winning style a few years ago and they rely on individual brilliant sparks from a few backs>
it is this reason the tah fans suggest they are playing not to win, but to 'not lose' -
which is a shame cause i think that the tahs have showed they can play good rugby this year> the last two games we have seen them really go for it at times> but in line with the above article id suggest theres to much emphasis on stats and figures and not enough rugby being played
jay-c
Ron Walden (29)
i think the tahs need to expand their target market not shrink it
i dont think they understand the mess they are in> id suggest they are in a worse position than any professional football team in the country solely for the fact that they have a 'boring' image attached to them
the brumbies fans know their situation will only last the year
afl is going from strength to strength and so if the league
i think its going to have to be a 5-10year project> these short term plans havnt been doing them any good for a long time
anyone under 18 gets in for free -(at least one adult per group to keep em in line)
build a pattern over several years so when people finish school and can afford tix they think weekend, they think rugby at sfs
and by god dont forget the loyal fans who have been going for years... do some damn market research find out what will make them happy and fkn do it!
half time entertainment should involve a supporters team playing the opposition supports team in touch (like what we did for the rebels game) register online- no pro players, discount tix for your friends, and changeroom with the team after the game if u win, and try get some fox sports coverage for the entertainment factor>>> christ thats way more entertaining for me than a stupid running race or ball catching ffs
i dont think they understand the mess they are in> id suggest they are in a worse position than any professional football team in the country solely for the fact that they have a 'boring' image attached to them
the brumbies fans know their situation will only last the year
afl is going from strength to strength and so if the league
i think its going to have to be a 5-10year project> these short term plans havnt been doing them any good for a long time
anyone under 18 gets in for free -(at least one adult per group to keep em in line)
build a pattern over several years so when people finish school and can afford tix they think weekend, they think rugby at sfs
and by god dont forget the loyal fans who have been going for years... do some damn market research find out what will make them happy and fkn do it!
half time entertainment should involve a supporters team playing the opposition supports team in touch (like what we did for the rebels game) register online- no pro players, discount tix for your friends, and changeroom with the team after the game if u win, and try get some fox sports coverage for the entertainment factor>>> christ thats way more entertaining for me than a stupid running race or ball catching ffs
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