Player contracts - Australia

[TOCC]

Australia has a central contracting/salary cap contractual agreement in place at the moment, im not entirely sure this is a positive thing for Australian rugby. For one it reduces the influence of the salary cap as the top players will still receive top-ups regardless of what province they play at, also, it is creating issues for players and clubs..

Its my belief that the funding usually set aside for the top-ups should be paid directly into the salary cap, thus increasing the salary cap but also putting the provinces in full control of the players wages and contract length. The ARU will still control the match bonuses..

This is how the NRL/Kangaroos/State Of Origin works and it seems to work out reasonably well.

 

[Swat]

I really don't know enough about this to comment. On the other hand, this is the Internet. Make it happen JO'N!

 

[Schadenfreude]

New Rules:
1) You can sign a contract with a player for what you have in a bank account specific to that player.
2) You can't use that bank account for anything other than player wages.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

How would the top up money be distributed? With teams like the reds and tahs with high numbers of wallabies they would all not be able to get what they can atm.

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[TOCC]

How would the top up money be distributed? With teams like the reds and tahs with high numbers of wallabies they would all not be able to get what they can atm.

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isn't that the point of a salary cap?

 

[GaffaCHinO]

isn't that the point of a salary cap?

Im not sure i understand what your trying to do.

If for example atm say each team has 4million to spend on their 30 man squad and then the aru has say 2.5million more to then offer to the top wallabie players.

Are you saying that the aru should put the extra straight into the cap and leave it up to the clubs to allocate to there players as the see fit?

If so how do the aru split the extra money so the wallabies get extra given the numbers at the reds and tahs?

Or is the aim to make the wallabie players be more evenly spread among the teams?

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[Braveheart81]

It would make it much harder for teams to retain their best players if the salary cap for each franchise included the Wallaby top-ups.

It would also make young up and coming players who are a chance of making the Wallabies highly unlikely to sign a long contract. Currently you could be contracted for not that much but have the chance of getting a Wallaby top-up the next season if you make the cut. If it was already inbuilt, you'd be encouraged to stick to short contracts.

As GaffaCHinO suggested, it would cause a massive re-distribution of players in the first couple of seasons such that the Wallabies (and therefore the highest paid players) were evenly spaced between the teams so they could earn to their potential.

 

[TOCC]

Why would it be harder to retain the best players?
In the NRL and AFL where they have salary caps the best players are likely to remain given the value the club places on these players..
If each player was ranked by their value, generally the players to transfer are those ranked 3-8th in the team.

In regards to long term contracts, well i believe thats highly incorrect.. How many young up and comers have signed long term contracts under the current scheme?? None...
2 years contracts are the max.. The ARU wont offer top-ups until they are proven at the test level, but the ARU and coaching staff aren't privy to a players ability as much as a club is. A club/coach is more likely to identify a players talent long before the Wallaby set-up does.

Like i mentioned, NRL and AFL clubs are more proactive at rewarding and extending players contracts 12-18months before they expire based on a players good form, this doesnt happen in rugby due to the convoluted of the contractual process.

It wouldn't see a massive distribution in the first couple of season, contracts are already signed and range from 12months to 36months, they concept could be implemented in a staggered approach similar to how the salary cap was introduced the past 18months. This isnt a knee-jerk concept where contracts are ripped up...

 

[Aussie D]

IMHO get rid of the top-ups and increase the salary cap to $5mill. The ARU could thenoffer bonus payments for Wallaby squad selection and additional payments for match selection.

 

[TOCC]

Greg Inglis just re-signed with South Sydney until 2017 even though he had 18months remaining on his contract...

One of the games best players locked away for another 5years, that would never happen under the current ARU/Super Rugby contractual process.

 

[wamberal]

Greg Inglis just re-signed with South Sydney until 2017 even though he had 18months remaining on his contract.

One of the games best players locked away for another 5years, that would never happen under the current ARU/Super Rugby contractual process.

Fortunately. Why on earth would any rational sporting organisation commit to employing any player for so many years, injuries and form notwithstanding?

 

[TOCC]

Not sure if you're serious??
NFL, NBA, NHL, NRL, AFL do it all the time, everyone of those organizations is light years more professional then the ARU..

If that is your only concern then all you need is a contract stipulation in regards to injuries..

 

[Braveheart81]

The ARU and the NRL are very different kettles of fish.

The Wallabies is such an important part of the calendar for our top rugby players whereas in the NRL, club football is the vast majority of the season.

In the AFL it is even moreso slanted towards club games than representative games.

 

[TOCC]

The ARU and the NRL are very different kettles of fish.

The Wallabies is such an important part of the calendar for our top rugby players whereas in the NRL, club football is the vast majority of the season.

In the AFL it is even moreso slanted towards club games than representative games.

No one is discounting the representative honor of wearing the Wallaby jersey, in the NRL, QLD and NSW seem to have no problems around Origin time.. Players earn there rep money through the match bonuses..

Rugby adopted a similar approach to Cricket Australia which is also a shambles and subsequently in the midst of a reform, one key area will be the added emphasis of moving money towards state players away from the national reps.

 

[TOCC]

The idea of only having 20-25 wallabies players offered top-up contracts is a joke considering that the true number of the squad is up to 30... Or this year it's actually closer to 40 if you factor in those injured.

Dave Dennis wouldn't be on a top-up but it's likely in 2012 he will start more matches over someone like Higgers who is on a top-up.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's hard to correlate the two though.

A top NRL player can sign a 5 year contract with their club because it allows them to vie for State of Origin and Kangaroo selection.

A Super Rugby player (who is currently a Wallaby) is unlikely to sign a 5 year contract with their franchise because if they lose their Wallaby contract their salary will drop substantially and they might look for opportunities overseas.

The ARU is never going to offer players 5 year ARU top ups.

I get what you're saying and I agree that our system has problems but I'm not sure what the solution is.

 

[Lee Enfield]

As mentioned above, get rid of ARU top ups and increase the salary cap to between $5 and $6million and allow the Franchises to pay the base wages for the players.
If you are selected to play for the Wallabies, you receive incentive based match bonuses to supplement your base wage. The match payments could be $30,000 for a win and $10,000 for a loss as an example.

 

[TOCC]

It's hard to correlate the two though.

A top NRL player can sign a 5 year contract with their club because it allows them to vie for State of Origin and Kangaroo selection.

A Super Rugby player (who is currently a Wallaby) is unlikely to sign a 5 year contract with their franchise because if they lose their Wallaby contract their salary will drop substantially and they might look for opportunities overseas.

The ARU is never going to offer players 5 year ARU top ups.

I get what you're saying and I agree that our system has problems but I'm not sure what the solution is.

That's the whole point of what I'm saying.... ARU top-ups shouldn't exist, that money should go directly to the clubs for them to sign players on their worth..

Drop the top-ups and increase the salary cap... Wallaby match bonuses are currently around $12'000 I believe, keep that the same or make it slightly more.

 

[Braveheart81]

It would be interesting to know what the current franchise salaries are if you added up what the franchise paid to the Wallaby top ups.

I'd bet the Reds and the Tahs would have the highest overall salaries.

If you changed the system to make it so there were no top-ups, surely that would improve the ability of the other franchises to poach players.

Whilst that isn't necessarily a bad thing, I'm not convinced that you as a Reds fan would be happy with the outcome.

It would be interesting to see exactly where things lied though.

 

[TOCC]

Braveheart, if you read through my posts (ref higgers and genia in 2012) I would never begrudge a player who leaves a club to chase his market value, I'm supportive of this.. If a player leaves a club it's not the end of the world..