Pick your Wallaby team for EOYT

[Cutter]

This is a tour where we play tests so we should be picking a team to win. I dont want to lose a Bledisloe game in Hong Kong or to any of the NH teams. I suspect Deans, JON and the Wallabies dont either. Having said that, there are some established players who can be left behind and some younger players who should be given an opportunity.

Vickerman and Elsom cant/shouldnt be considered.

Waugh is a very poor man's Smith and Pocock has earnt the opportunity to tour. Tuquiri is close to the situation where he could possibly be dropped on form. He doesnt go looking for work, doesnt support his fullback and doesnt chase kicks but can finish, defend and isnt too bad at the breakdown. Line ball decision but leaving him behind wouldnt be a bad thing for his attitude either. Deans dropped the established Sharpe when his form was down which sent out a message and dropping Tuquiri for the same reason would reinforce that message.

Sharpe played well on Saturday. I would keep him because he has the right attributes to be very good but I would warn him that he must develop into a tighter player. Dunning is done. TPN should stay at home and learn to throw. Beale isnt ready. Palu should recover from his knee injury, get fitter and work on his mental game. He is potentially a match winner, but too often goes missing or makes mistakes when we need him. As for Elsom, Leinster is a hypnotherapy centre based in Ireland isnt it? Play well every game Rocky. I dont think Tahu is up to test rugby yet. He should only tour if he is.

Baxter is our best tighthead and has improved. He must tour. Giteau is our best 10 and our best 12. Sure he isnt Carter or Larkham, but then who is? To suggest he should be dropped is allowing disappointment to cloud your good judgment or, probably, allowing disappointment to conspire with bad judgment. He needs guidance on how to manage a game and we dont have anyone else at the moment. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would start in front of Mortlock at 13. Horwill would be captain and either Barnes or Giteau vice captain.

A difference between Robinson and Frier (both little men who, generally, make ground when they run it) and Dunning and, sometimes, Moore, is that Robinson and Frier are aware they are small men and have better body position. Dunning has consistently been nailed behind the advantage line this year because of bad body position. Moore was hammered by Kaino because of bad body position and often has too much confidence in his size and power.

I hope they will take:

THPs
Baxter
Edwards

LHP
Robinson
Holmes
Alexander

Hookers
Moore
Frier
bolter?

Locks
Horwill
Sharpe
Mumm
Kimlin

6s
McMeniman

7s
Smith
Pocock

8s
Horua
Brown

9s
Burgess
Lucas
Sheehan

10s
Gits
Cooper or Lealifano

12s
Barnes
Staniforth (if fit, Tahu if not)
SNK

13s
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Cross
Mortlock

Wings
Ioane
Hynes
Turner

15
Mitchell
Shepherd

 

[Cutter]

I would consider leaving Mortlock at home and taking Cross and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) probably had his best game at fullback yesterday, but I think he will still give us more at 13 or even on the wing. I'm sure we can find another 15 that is just as good. Mortlock could do with the rest, and we could do with sorting out the next leader - maybe run the tour with co-captains - Horwill and Giteau?
My squad:

Props - Baxter, Edwards, Robinson, Alexander, Holmes (Baxter has proven better this 3N, Dunning has not)
Hookers - Moore, Freier, Nau (Nau doesn't really deserve it, but neither does anyone else)
Locks - Horwill, Mumm, Kimlin, Sharpe

Loose Forwards - MMM, Pocock, Waugh, Smith, Brown, Hoiles

Halfbacks - Burgess, Lucas, Sheehan
Flyhalves - Giteau, Beale

IC - Barnes, Tahu
OC - Cross, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Wings - Mitchell, Hynes, Tuqiri, Ioane
FBs - Shepherd, Turner

Scotty you beat me to the punch with this. As for Mortlock, apart from a couple of good runs, I dont think this has been a vintage season for him. Carter beat him for speed badly on Saturday and, sadly, I think this could be the end of him as our captain and first pick 13.

 

[Aussie D]

Not sure how many 'tour' games there are for development purposes but think just touring with the Wallabies under Deans would be good for developmental purposes but agree that winning the tests comes first. My squad would be:
THP: Dunning; Edwards (if fit - not sure if there is anyone else if he isn't)
LHP: Robinson; Alexander (been in the squad all year and it wouldn't be right to drop him without giving him some game time to prove himself)
Developmental Prop - Kepu. See if he can prop both sides. Leave Holmes in Qld to get a good off season and hopefully strengthen his body to the rigours of test rugby as he is another who seems to spend a lot of time on the sick list.
Hookers: Moore; Freir; a third with an eye to the future - do you continue to pour countless hours into TPN's throwing or move along and check to see if Fainga'a has what it takes?
Locks: Horwill; Sharpe; Kimlin; Hockings
BF: MMM; Mumm
OF: Smith; Pocock.
8man: Brown; Hoiles - last chance saloon time for Hoiles almost.

HB: Burgess (has his injury healed?); Sheehan.
FH/IC: SNK; Gitteau; Barnes.
C: Tahu; Cross; AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
W/FB: Ioane; Turner; Hynes; Shepherd (if over injury); Mitchell; Fainifo (or A.N.Other to give Tuqiri a rest / time to think)
Utility Back: Lucas - Is he a half back or fly half?

Horwill to captain the squad.

 

[Scotty]

Imagine if you suggested to someone a year ago that Horwill should be the next captain of the Wallabies......

now there are at least three of us doing it, and no one is laughing.

 

[cyclopath]

Yeah, it's funny isn't it? There were suggestions earlier in the year about Moore's credentials, and back then I'd have thought he was ahead of Horwill. But Horwill's mental growth, and Moore's tendency to infringe too obviously and stupidly has definitely reversed it for me. And I just think a forward is a better person to captain the team. Only really think 9 can do it from the backs. Horwill has been the revelation of the year for me.

 

[Scotty]

Maybe the Brumbies should make Moore captain, and he might turn around the indiscretions like Horwill did?

 

[naza]

Indiscretions ? He had one game where he gave away a couple too many penalties. Let's not act like he's friggin' Owen Finegan or something. Keep in mind 1/ bloody Kaplan was the ref and 2/ Moore was doing something at the rucks instead of watching on, waiting for his chance to run in the centres.

 

[cyclopath]

Sorry, naza, but he has to play the ref. Kaplan had a hard-on against him, and yet he kept doing the same thing. They were dum penalties too. He probably could have been yellowed. Then how bad would it look? This was his worst game from this point of view. As I posted elsewhere, he is potentially a great player with all his other skills, but needs to get this stuff sorted now, and not become a target for refs. My point is Horwill has done it; I think Moore can too. Oh, and he spends too much time in the centres too. He's too good in the tight stuff, and should stop this too.

 

[formeropenside]

I'm back after a holiday in Sydney.

May post about the game later. Basically I would have been running/passing the ball into the offside AB palyer at each ruck on purpose until they got binned. Sivi should have been carded for tackling Hynes in the air.

Are there midweek games or not?

Moore is still first choice hooker; but he was awful in the loose: he never hit the ball with momentum. I worry that going to the Brumbies will damage his skills in the tight - the Brumbies forward play is notoriouly loose. If there were midweek games I'd take TPN, but I dont think there are. Freier...well not so much. If I want to pick a midget hooker there's Jade Ingham!

I'd lose Dunning but would take Baxter: he's an emergency reserve prop while we find real ones. I'm not sure that Edwards is fit again, and I'd love to see Greg Holmes go but he's a LHP and Robinson is doing OK there.

Sharpe, I am surprised to say, I would take. Kimlin, MMM, Horwill.

No Phil Waugh.

 

[the gambler]

I hope they will take:

THPs
Baxter
Edwards

LHP
Robinson
Holmes
Alexander

Hookers
Moore
Frier
bolter? I'd go with TPN still

Locks
Horwill
Sharpe
Mumm
Kimlin

6s
McMeniman

7s
Smith
Pocock

8s
Horua I would stick with Palu if fit.
Brown

9s
Burgess
Lucas
Sheehan

10s
Gits
Cooper or Lealifano Would rather Horne go as a 12 than either of these two or Beale.

12s
Barnes
Staniforth (if fit, Tahu if not)
SNK

13s
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Cross
Mortlock

Wings
Ioane
Hynes
Turner Lote instead of Lachie.

15
Mitchell
Shepherd

Noddy are you Ewen McKenzie?? You picked 5 props but Edwards is the only tight head. Unless you have been watching Randwick play every week and seen Kepu become a decent tight head (I thought he was playing loose for randwick ) since the end of the super 14 I dont get the logic behind your selections. Baxter has been doing a job and needs to stay around for another year till Edwards and potentially Palmer or someone else make massive steps up.

 

[RugbyReg]

Yeah I appreciate it looks odd. From the props perspective I am relying on Kepu and Holmes having some time at 3 as they do at club. Maafu is another option I guess.

I guess the thing is I am tired of mediocity. And to me Al Baxter is that. And yes I admit he has shown some good form this year, intermittenly but to me he is nothing more than mediocre. Plus, cmon, he's 30 what now? Do we want him still there in 2011?

I think Oz rugby would benefit from getting new players under Deans for a while. Hell they might as well have a 50 man training squad for 3 weeks.

 

[fatprop]

QANTAS WALLABIES SQUAD FOR THE 2008 BUNDABERG RUM RUGBY SERIES

Forwards (17)
Alexander, Ben
Baxter, Alistair
Brown, Richard
Chisholm, Mark, replaced by Vickerman now gone
Dunning, Matt ?
Elsom, Rocky - gone
Freier, Adam
Hoiles, Stephen ? replaced by McMeniman, Hugh
Horwill, James
Moore, Stephen
Mumm, Dean
Palu, Wycliff - wounded
Polota-Nau, Tatafu ?
Robinson, Benn
Sharpe, Nathan
Smith, George
Waugh, Phil ?

Backs (13)
Ashley-Cooper, Adam
Barnes, Berrick
Burgess, Luke
Cordingley, Sam - gone
Cross, Ryan
Giteau, Matt
Hynes, Peter
Ioane, Digby - replaced by Tahu
Mortlock, Stirling
Sheehan, Brett
Shepherd, Cameron ? wounded, but will be fit (?), replaced by Mitchell
Tuqiri, Lote
Turner, Lachie

This is the squad of 30 that Deans selected at the start of the season, only Nau, Dunning, Waugh & Ioane seem to have really lessoned their standing and of course Cordingly, Vickerman & Elsom are gone.

So we are down to replacements for someone better than these and three other places.

Nau, there is only Hardman as another option, I think they will take Nau.
Dunning will have to go on tour, we have too many tests to have a Baxter and a rookie, my bet is another THP will tour, either Kepu, Sheperdson or Edwards. I think Kepu as Edwards is still wounded and needs a full pro off season.
Waugh, struggled when starting against the big sides, Pocock to tour
Ioane, I think he won?t tour if Shepherd is available

Of the injured/OS pigs
Cordingley is gone, Lucus to tour
Vickerman, Chisolm to come back in
Elsom, Kimlin to come in
Palu, Hoiles to come in

My two others
Tahu
Beale

So my squad would be

Forwards (18)
Alexander, Ben
Baxter, Alistair
Brown, Richard
Chisholm, Mark
Dunning, Matt
Kepu
Kimlin
Freier, Adam
Hoiles, Stephen
McMeniman, Hugh
Horwill, James
Moore, Stephen
Mumm, Dean
Polota-Nau, Tatafu
Robinson, Benn
Sharpe, Nathan
Smith, George
Pocock

Backs (15)
Ashley-Cooper, Adam
Barnes, Berrick
Beale
Burgess, Luke
Cross, Ryan
Giteau, Matt
Hynes, Peter
Mitchell
Lucas
Mortlock, Stirling
Sheehan, Brett
Shepherd, Cameron
Tuqiri, Lote
Turner, Lachie
Tahu

 

[RugbyReg]

I am pretty sure I read an article where Cords was available to tour with his contract not due to start until December?

 

[fatprop]

I am pretty sure I read an article where Cords was available to tour with his contract not due to start until December?

If so, either Beale or Lucas will miss out. My bet would be Beale as he has not played since the S14 final.

 

[Scotty]

Doesn't mean they will select him. Despite me sticking up for his performances, I don't see any reason to pick him for this tour, especially now that the HK test is an exhibition game.

 

[Virgil]

Who are you guys playing?
Other than us of course in HK

 

[formeropenside]

Its not a grand slam:

1st November Qantas Wallabies Vs New Zealand Hong Kong
8th November Qantas Wallabies Vs Italy Padova
15th November Qantas Wallabies Vs England London
22nd November Qantas Wallabies Vs France Paris

 

[Virgil]

Its not a grand slam:

1st November Qantas Wallabies Vs New Zealand Hong Kong
8th November Qantas Wallabies Vs Italy Padova
15th November Qantas Wallabies Vs England London
22nd November Qantas Wallabies Vs France Paris

Boy its going to be a tough time, what with only the likely hood of 1 win
(and yes i mean Italy!)

 

[Scarfman]

You making a late charge for a Scarf award, V?

Most Cocky Winner?

 

[formeropenside]

Its a three and a half week tour with not a lot of slush and mud planned - its a bit of a waste as far as development goes.

Can't we do a 6-8 week tour, with a grand slam, a Baa-Baa's game, and a french or italian test to kick off? Maybe even throw in a midweek test (by the dirt trackers, same as a RWC) against say Georgia or Portugal, and midweek games against local clubs.

Does anyone have the 1984 tour programme for a comparison?