Oz Schools v NZ Schools Test & Tour

[RugbyNut101]

After watching the schoolboys test and the game between NSW and Qld 19's (where there was a number of the higher rated players missing) I have no doubt that we have the talent available to produce something special in the next 10 years IF we get the changes we all know we need (National comp, etc.). However, in conjunction with this we need to develop some new coaches with an ability to teach and relate to these young players.

I know its not the correct forum to do so, but do you have a match report on that game between NSW and QLD 19s.

 

[Jaghond]

ILMF,

Are you able to advise / confirm if Horwitz played for NSW in that match ??

If so, how did he go ? As LG has commented previously, he had a pretty good season this year.

Thanks
The Hound

 

[Gristlechewer]

Pleash wasn't the problem in the scrums. Sandell was put under enormous pressure by NZ's McHugh who was one of their best in tight as well. Mind you Sandell made up for this with his work rate around the park. Robertson did well when he came on especially in that first scrum right on the Aussies line. Don't understand why he didn't start as he's a better scrummager than Pleash, can do more with the ball in hand and his work rate is comparable.

I think you answered your own quetion there. Look at the weights of Wilson and Pleash which are both < 90kg. makes it hard for a THP in that situation with 2 x 110kg hitting in on you. bring to mind that he head Dempsey on his right butt cheek and again Sandell not getting a hell of a lot of support from anywhere. at least when Tom Robertson came on there was more than equivalent weight dispersed. You are right about Matt Sandells work rate though, some of the other gentlemen should sit down and watch the tapes and how much work he does.

 

[Gristlechewer]

Newbs you've always got your finger on the pulse of the HM and other junior league rep players - how many of them actually make it big time in NRL? I assume that like the troops going over the top of the trenches in WW1 there's always a new wave coming in tomorrow? Is the professionalism of it a bit more merciless?

Merciless is the understatement... If you look at NSWCCC teams they are filled with HM and JF players. one team from the Central Coast had 15 of the 17 squad signed with Manly,Balmain etc. As one of these players fall by the wayside due to injury ability waning etc. there is 60 more kids waiting to take the place so they make it to the big time.
Basically as you said CTPE. Send em over the top, those left standing make it to the next trench and then there are plenty of starry eyed kids ready to jump over filling their spots

 

[RugbyNut101]

See Horwitz for yourselves

 

[Lee Grant]

I think you answered your own quetion there. Look at the weights of Wilson and Pleash which are both < 90kg. makes it hard for a THP in that situation with 2 x 110kg hitting in on you. bring to mind that he head Dempsey on his right butt cheek and again Sandell not getting a hell of a lot of support from anywhere. at least when Tom Robertson came on there was more than equivalent weight dispersed. You are right about Matt Sandells work rate though, some of the other gentlemen should sit down and watch the tapes and how much work he does.

See Photo of Tomas Robertson and Matt Sandell below - courtesy of John Flitcroft.

Sandell has done well this year for somebody who played in the 2nd row in the Joeys Ones in 2011. I often wondered why Robbo was not the THP and Matt the LHP in 2012 - instead of the other way around - and indeed GPS and NSW picked Robbo to play on the TH side.

Even though Matt was picked to start at THP by Oz Schools this year I think his senior future is as a LHP (or better still hooker) and I hope that in 2013 Joeys play him at LHP - the position he played when he skippered the NSW Schools U/16 team in 2011.
.

 

[scaraby]

See Horwitz for yourselves

Can't keep a good man down!!!

 

[en_force_er]

See Photo of Tomas Robertson and Matt Sandell below - courtesy of John Flitcroft.

Sandell has done well this year for somebody who played in the 2nd row in the Joeys Ones in 2011. I often wondered why Robbo was not the THP and Matt the LHP in 2012 - instead of the other way around - and indeed GPS and NSW picked Robbo to play on the TH side.

Even though Matt was picked to start at THP by Oz Schools this year I think his senior future is as a LHP (or better still hooker) and I hope that in 2013 Joeys play him at LHP - the position he played when he skippered the NSW Schools U/16 team in 2011.
.

The one on the bench sured up our scrum when we were down a man and he has a great body shape. Looks promising, ship him off to France to play D2 tomorrow and bring him back when he's 20!

The other blokes I really rated from the U20 game were:

• The captain/8 - Who seems to me to fit the mould of what a 7 is becoming. A bit of break down presence but a lot of running impact.
• The 13 - Who was physically impressive and set a mighty fine hard defensive corner.
• The 7 - Great pilferer and tackler but he mightn't offer enough weight to attack to really dominate senior rugby.
• The 6 - Who didn't have the impact of the 7 but offered more running which once again is what a modern 7 is becoming. Great abrasive attitude too.
• The 15 - Who was a touch erratic but very exciting. We could polish up his wild streak or convert him to a wing where it would matter less. Let's make sure he stays with union though because he'd be very suited to league and no doubt they've noticed.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

ILMF,

Are you able to advise / confirm if Horwitz played for NSW in that match ??

If so, how did he go ? As LG has commented previously, he had a pretty good season this year.

Thanks
The Hound

Horwitz did play and he was a standout for NSW in the time he was on

 

[Lee Grant]

enforcer

• The 8 is Mitch Whiteley one of the most skilled Schools forwards I have ever seen though you didn't see a lot of his skills work in the game: he was more noticeable playing a shooter role coming off the line and knocking guys over. He was the one who created the turnover that led to the first Oz try.

He's kind of a Zinzan type of player at the schools level and his speciality is in linking the forwards and the backs. I have criticised him in the past for playing too loose but he was not shy to get into the tough stuff in Auckland, was he? Incidentally, he started at 12 last year for Riverview v Joeys and was not the worst.

He is the 2nd Oz Schools captain of aboriginal descent in 6 years and I bet folks can guess who the first one was.

That was easy, but here's a harder question: Mitch Whiteley, John Porch and Tomas Robertson all played for Oz Schools in the "test match" in Auckland. Apart from the obvious, what else do they have in common?

[No, they don't all have aboriginal descent, though Whiteley and Porch do. Hint: It has to do with Wellington. No Gristlechewer, you are not allowed to answer.]

• The 13 was Jim Stewart and yes, at 96kgs he is physically impressive. I think his best position is at 12. I talked about him in post # 178 of this thread.

• The 7 was the excellent Michael Gunn. He will have enough weight to play the position in senior rugby, if that's what you meant. He is 90kgs and that is heavier than Gill was at the same age and probably bigger than Hooper was also.

It will be interesting to see where these lads play when they leave school; some of the boys have a lot of natural growth to come; others don't. Whiteley's natural position is 8, but at only 90kgs has to put on more to play the position as an elite senior player.

• 6. Was Dempsey - also talked about him on post # 178.

• 15. That was Placid - was also mentioned in that post. I wouldn't worry about his wild streak, as you call it and must admit I missed it watching the match. I take your point about playing him on the wing as a senior player for starters but another view is that he will learn about the consequences of wildness at 15. only when allowed to make mistakes there. To be an elite senior fullback he has to learn to be a custodian on defence and to kick the ball long as Dagg does, and Cullen and Burke did.

As mentioned before: I would sign him up for the 2013 Oz Sevens team as they did with four 2011 schoolboys in 2012.

Dempsey would go well as a 7s forward too and Whiteley - maybe even Stewart as a forward.
.

 

[en_force_er]

Thanks Lee, you can get pretty detached from the Oz players in Victoria.

I think Stewart could play 13 under the right system. To be honest, I don't think anyone is really a 12 or a 13 per say. There are certain types of centres and some coaches like them at different points in the supply chain, if you catch my drift.

You're right about Gunn but Gill's the man that proves it's possible not that it's likely. Also he'd have to have a much more rounded game to play 7 at a senior level, but I'd say he was a major component in us winning the game so I'm not complaining.

Whiteley could play anywhere in the looseys, but it's important someone makes the decision soonish and sticks with it.

Placid and Dempsey look like all they need is physical growth and development into their positions, not too much messing about required.

 

[Jasdec]

enforcer

• That was easy, but here's a harder question: Mitch Whiteley, John Porch and Tomas Robertson all played for Oz Schools in the "test match" in Auckland. Apart from the obvious, what else do they have in common?

[No, they don't all have aboriginal descent, though Whiteley and Porch do. Hint: It has to do with Wellington. No Gristlechewer, you are not allowed to answer.]


Is it the fact that along with Matt Sandell they all played their junior rugby in the Central West??
Wellington Dubbo ? and Mudgee.

 

[Lee Grant]

No


Edit: but close.

They were all born at Wellington Hospital (NSW).
.

 

[gilbert15]

I note next years schoolboy schedule is a beauty....in September, inbound tours by Fiji, New Zealand, and I believe for the first time South Africa, then our boys head of to the UK....
Do any schools or clubs tour South Africa?

 

[en_force_er]

I note next years schoolboy schedule is a beauty..in September, inbound tours by Fiji, New Zealand, and I believe for the first time South Africa, then our boys head of to the UK..
Do any schools or clubs tour South Africa?

It's almost unfair that next year's boys get to play inbound games, SA, and tour Europe and this year's only get to tour the Islands and NZ.

Obviously the Pacific Islands are beautiful but you just can't buy an experience like next year's.

 

[Grandstand]

I note next years schoolboy schedule is a beauty..in September, inbound tours by Fiji, New Zealand, and I believe for the first time South Africa, then our boys head of to the UK..
Do any schools or clubs tour South Africa?

I understand Barker are working on a tour to South Africa. Not sure if it next year.

 

[Lee Grant]

It's the luck of the draw for Oz Schools players: they have a Europe tour every 4 years. Apart from that they have a Pacific tour every 2 years but it doesn't coincide with the Europe tour year.

When there is not a Pacific tour, NZ and another team comes to Oz: last year it was England and next year it be South Africa apparently, which will be new.

Yep, 2013 will be a grand year to be picked for Oz Schools, and 2012 Year 11 players: Fakaoselia, Sandell, Moeroa and Kellaway will have a shot to go on their 2nd Oz Schools tour in 2013, as others like Beale and CFS have done before them.
.

 

[Newbie]

An extract from the ASRU site (an awesome achievement):

AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLS RUGBY UNION (ASRU)

HISTORY MAKING...

* FIRST TEAM TO DEFEAT FIJI, NEW ZEALAND, TONGA & SAMOA IN SAME YEAR
* SECOND ONLY WIN OVER NEW ZEALAND SCHOOLS IN NEW ZEALAND
* FOURTH WIN OVER NEW ZEALAND IN SIX YEARS
* STEVE PHILLPOTTS & TIM RAPP BECOME FIRST COACHES TO BEAT NEW ZEALAND IN CONSECUTIVE YEARS

Now to fix the issue that exists after schoolboys (i.e. the U/20's). In saying that the powers that be are off to good start with the re-introduction of the U/19 NSW v QLD matches. There just needs to be more!

I remember when I was playing colts (when it was U/21's) there was a series of 2 or 3 matches played between NSW and QLD at that level as well. Can anyone confirm if this still occurs?

 

[Newbie]

No


Edit: but close.

They were all born at Wellington Hospital (NSW).
.

Well lets be thankful it wasn't the other 'Wellington Hospital' in the 'Eastern Australian Islands.

 

[Lee Grant]

Now to fix the issue that exists after schoolboys (i.e. the U/20's). In saying that the powers that be are off to good start with the re-introduction of the U/19 NSW v QLD matches. There just needs to be more!

I remember when I was playing colts (when it was U/21's) there was a series of 2 or 3 matches played between NSW and QLD at that level as well. Can anyone confirm if this still occurs?

I can't answer that - and I don't know why they stopped the state U/19 games either.

I've got an old team sheet from 2005 and Higginbotham, Beau R and Dennis played in it - and a few weeks earlier NSW U/19 had played Canterbury and Otago. That's the kind of programme you want at the tail end of the season and it would fit in with U/20 selections for the following year.

I also have a 2003 U/19 NSW team sheet, though I don't remember who they played. Houston, Mumm, Fat Cat, Saffy, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Shepherd and Andrew Smith were in that side.

It would have been long odds to pick the only player from each team to play in a test match 7 years later from the 2005 NSW v Canterbury U/19 game: Dave Dennis, and Canterbury bench player Luke Romano.
.