Oz Schools v NZ Schools Test & Tour

[ChargerWA]

So can anyone pin point why we can win 4 of the last 6 schools against nz then finish 8th in the 20's?

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Very dissapointed with everyones else's (correct) answer. An oppourtunity to sink the boot into Nucifora gone begging.

Anyhoo, first international game of schoolboys rugby I have seen, and it was fantastic!!!!

The interplay between our 13, 14 and 15 was better than anything the wobblies have dished up this year. Placid is a real prospect and our 13 looks like a big bodied lad, hope he finds his way into a proper development program somewhere. Nice to see the "aussie style" of rugby isn't dead and buried.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Very dissapointed with everyones else's (correct) answer. An oppourtunity to sink the boot into Nucifora gone begging.

..../snip/.....

Charger, that is such a given condition that most of us may have reached the Flogging a Dead Horse, Fish in the Barrell, Candy from a Baby moment. There already is a "beware of Nuci as National Coach" thread or words to that same general effect.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Easy. What do these kids do after school? Play amateur rugby in colts, some will go into academies (and not play any rugby!) and the others will go the league.

What do the rest of the world do with their top juniors? Signed to professional clubs straight away and constantly playing against other professional clubs. In a professional environment from the get go.

Oh and coaching of course.

Qwerty like is not sufficient endorsement for this post.
Don't forget though that the next national rep team they come up for has been coached by Nucifora for a while which further hinders development.


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[Iluvmyfooty]

After watching the schoolboys test and the game between NSW and Qld 19's (where there was a number of the higher rated players missing) I have no doubt that we have the talent available to produce something special in the next 10 years IF we get the changes we all know we need (National comp, etc.). However, in conjunction with this we need to develop some new coaches with an ability to teach and relate to these young players.

 

[Newbie]

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Placid is a real prospect and our 13 looks like a big bodied lad, hope he finds his way into a proper development program somewhere ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

The 13. Stewart was a Manly HM junior once upon a time, and an exciting prospect at that! Prior to entering Scots he attended St Augustine's where in 2009 he made the NSWCCC League team and then the Australia U/15. At the 2009 U/15 ASSRL championship Stewart was voted player of the tournament!

For those that don't know NSWCCC are more dominant in league than they are in rugby and are the current Australian champions in both the U/15 and U/18's.

Moving on you can only hope that the key protagonists in the ARU have identified his unique talent and ability and therefore has an 'Academy Contract' awaiting for one of the various Super Rugby franchises once his exams are finished.

Needless to you can expect league to have another crack! Given his talent you would be stupid not to think the same!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

If Uncle Manu hasn't got his claws well and truly latched on to young Mr Stewart, then his ongoing employment should be questioned.

 

[Newbie]

If Uncle Manu hasn't got his claws well and truly latched on to young Mr Stewart, then his ongoing employment should be questioned.

As much as I agree with your sentiment, I believe it will probably come down to dollars in the end! The lad is that good I'm afraid.

And Placid will be on the same radar! You can expect him and his family to receive an approach from Paul Bunn of the Melbourne Storm (ex-Broncos recruitment Manager) who has probably had his eye on this lad for a long time!

In addition to the Broncos and all the other QLD NRL recruitment officers!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There were a lot of people at Knox and View for the U16 and Opens with clipboards who were not attired in ARU or ASRU regalia, and these were not clustered inside the official enclosure reserved for the Selectors.

The buyers agents attending the cattle market at the stockyards.

 

[casking]

is there a highlights package of OZ v NZ i missed the bloody thing would love some footage!

cheers

 

[lily]

Go to Rugby for a pittance or maybe play Toyota Cup and have a deposit on a unit on the Northern Beaches paid for. I know what I would be telling my son to do.

 

[Newbie]

Go to Rugby for a pittance or maybe play Toyota Cup and have a deposit on a unit on the Northern Beaches paid for. I know what I would be telling my son to do.

And a Toyota Cup lad can always return to rugby a more disciplined professional if he so chooses to do so later on!

 

[CTPE]

And a Toyota Cup lad can always return to rugby a more disciplined professional if he so chooses to do so later on!

Newbs you've always got your finger on the pulse of the HM and other junior league rep players - how many of them actually make it big time in NRL? I assume that like the troops going over the top of the trenches in WW1 there's always a new wave coming in tomorrow? Is the professionalism of it a bit more merciless?

 

[I like to watch]

Plenty of guys are making their NRL debut @ 23 or 24, thats 5 or 6 years out of school waiting for their break to come if it ever does.
They are not earning big bucks in the interim.the 80 20 rule works in the Toyota Cup, 80% of the cash is earned by 20% of the players.
If you are not in the 20% you can't live on it.

 

[disco]

Watched the game again I went with Aussie #6 as best on the park I thought he had a brilliant backrowers game. Did all the tough stuff early & then made the big plays late in the game against tired legs.

 

[Newbie]

Newbs you've always got your finger on the pulse of the HM and other junior league rep players - how many of them actually make it big time in NRL? I assume that like the troops going over the top of the trenches in WW1 there's always a new wave coming in tomorrow? Is the professionalism of it a bit more merciless?

Most agree that 5% of all HM lads will make it to the NRL. However a much higher proportion will make it through to the
NYC (or Toyota Cup) level. To that extent I agree with Lily concerning choice.

For obvious reasons my management ethos is premised upon using either code as vehicle to a better education; a means to an end!

As it stands league does offer that attraction to those of lesser pecuniosity (and who were not fortunate enough to pick up a secondary education scholarship).

A fair few NRL clubs have tertiary affiliations (primarily PE and Sport Science) and assist young recruits (i.e. Toyota Cup players) with entry into such institutions. For example the Dragons have a relationship with UOW; the Storm has one with ACU and I believe the Bulldogs have one with ACU and ACPE.

Ultimately (as the odds would suggest) if a lad does not make it through to the NRL, or he chooses to go back to what he loved most, that being rugby, then the relationship has served a purpose. Not everyone can hope to gain a SydU scholarship through schoolboy rugby!

 

[Elixir]

Just got a chance to watch the game. Despite my loyalty to the silver fern this is a great result for the development of Rugby in this country. The OZ boys thoroughly deserved their win - even considering the NZ goal kicker missing a bunch of shots at goal - a couple from throwable positions - but I digress.

The OZ loosies were the point of difference for me. The frontrowers were not as effective but did enough to hold steady (the replacement frontrower made an impact). I was surprised by the lack of size in the NZ team. The OZ boys for the most part were physically taller or bigger man for man in their positions compared to the neighbouring counterparts.

Where to from here? How can the great OZ Schoolboys success of recent years be transferred into the U/20 National program? Why hasn't it already?! It's pretty hard to do battle with the open cheque books of the NRL Toyota Cup programs.

Also, the reality is that the School Rugby selection process in NZ is no different to here. The Boys in the 'Ivy league Schools' private School system have the platform to showcase themselves to the people that matter on a more regular basis - which in essence is why the Gold Squad here was created more so to give those talented public school boys an equal opportunity to be seen & advance. In NZ most CHS Schools play in the 2nd or 3rd division 1st XV competitions.

But this remedies itself when it comes to open trials for further NZ rep selections after School is over when the public School boys have their opportunity to put forward their case. Over half of the current dominant AB squad were public School students and never represented at national Schoolboy level.

 

[Informer]

So can anyone pin point why we can win 4 of the last 6 schools against nz then finish 8th in the 20's?

My impression this year was that the selectors panicked. This age group lost to the Kiwis in 2010 and were not as strong as some years. To compensate the selectors went for boys in the academies plus a number of bolters from within the age group and from the age group below. They then compounded the problem by choosing players out of position. As it transpired these selections were generally a failure, as shown by the results (placed 8th in the world).

In my view this reflects the lack of long term planning, despite the national academies. By sticking to kids in the academies plus a few from outside the selectors missed the boys who were performing each week in colts and grade, which is where all of these kids are playing. I am sure they will tell you they had an open mind but I suggest they need to be more proactive in assessing the development of talent throughout the season and who are the best options at selection time, rather than who is in the academy topped up with a few external bolters.That means getting along to the games each week and checking who is playing well.

The talent is there, it just needs to be identified and nurtured. I reckon a team made up of the best of Sydney and Qld Colts would wallop the squad that toured. I bet that in hindsight they regret leaving Donlan, McCaffrey, Dunbar, Miller, Hodge etc at home. McCaffrey was chosen by Eastwood as their best forward in first grade at year end, but could not get a run, figure that out.

 

[Lee Grant]

Watched the game again I went with Aussie #6 as best on the park I thought he had a brilliant backrowers game. Did all the tough stuff early & then made the big plays late in the game against tired legs.

A good player, Dempsey: plays a bit like Rocky Elsom did at the same age, not that he was able to demonstrate that in the match against NZ, the way the game went. I think he'll be a pro player if he can get to Rocky's size, but he's got a bit to go.

On Placid: Good to see him in top form. He was a sensation last year in the U/16s but all the Qld folks said that most of the Qld backs, including him, were going to league as were their sons, except in the piggies. Placid was quiet in the Opens this year as his Qld team wasn't quite as good but yesterday we saw what he can do.

If 2011 schoolboys McMahon, Miller, Clark and Fa'alava'au can play Oz Sevens in 2012, I see no reason why Placid could not play 7s in 2013. They don't get paid a fortune in 7s but I would make sure he gets paid no less than a Toyota Cup player does until he is ready for a Super Rugby contract. I trust that he will be able to play some XVs also: he needs to log some time being a custodian fullback and kicking from hand.

Talking of Sevens: Dempsey would be every bit as good as McMahon and Miller are as 7s forwards; he has the skill and the engine.

On Stewart: he seems more suited to the league game. In union a professional career would be limited to playing at 12 - or to be a 12 who can play 13 at a pinch. In league he would be more valuable as a Beau Scott type and play second row, lock and centre.

I hope that he stays in our game and if he does he will get to grade quicker than most of the other guys in the Oz Schools team. He plays older and also, exceptionally, is not one who has to be kept back because of the physicality of senior rugby.

At 96kgs he wouldn't make a bad 7s forward either.
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[Waratard]

Talking of Sevens: Dempsey would be every bit as good as McMahon and Miller are as 7s forwards; he has the skill and the engine.

On Stewart: he seems more suited to the league game. In union a professional career would be limited to playing at 12 - or to be a 12 who can play 13 at a pinch. In league he would be more valuable as a Beau Scott type and play second row, lock and centre.

I hope that he stays in our game and if he does he will get to grade quicker than most of the other guys in the Oz Schools team. He plays older and also, exceptionally, is not one who has to be kept back because of the physicality of senior rugby.

At 96kgs he wouldn't make a bad 7s forward either.
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I think you'll find Stewart will stay in our game because i have been told he has already signed for the national academy which I believe actually is financially invested in it's players. The other players who I've been told have been invited into the academy are

Jack Dempsey
Mitch Whiteley
Matt Phillip (2nd Row)
Lalakai Foketi
Reece Hodge

Unsure of Qld boys though, if anyone has any info on the Qld academy it would be helpful

 

[Lee Grant]

If Uncle Manu hasn't got his claws well and truly latched on to young Mr Stewart, then his ongoing employment should be questioned.

Oh - Stewart would be on the virtual clipboard all right, not that Manu uses a real one, and most likely even before last year when Placid was sensational at the U/16s.

Manu doesn't miss a lot. He was at the 16s last week roaming around. I get a grunt when I say G'day to him now, which is progress.

Edit - Waratard

Thanks for that. I doubt that they would be the only NSW school leavers selected, not that you said that was the case. I imagine most of the starters yesterday except Sandell and Moeroa, who are back at school in 2013, would be on the list, plus prop Robertson and the injured Rorke.

I'd have Horwitz on it too: I rate him higher than the schools selectors do.
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