Our Centre Partnership - Moving Forward

[tranquility]

People criticise Horne's attacking game so much yet he still scored a modest 4 tries in 2012 for the Tahs.

Cummins scored three tries during 2012.

I find it interesting how much people talk up Inman as being the next big thing. He didn't score a single try during 2012.

All three of those sides struggled to score tries and had average backlines (the Rebels probably had the best backline at times when JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) were fit).

So far I would say that McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are the only centres that have really had an impact at test level. Horne and Fainga'a have been reasonable but struggle to have much impact in attack. Horne has certainly had more impact than Fainga'a.

I don't subscribe to the premise that guys like Cummins and Inman who don't do anything exceptional in Super Rugby will suddenly become better attacking options at test level.

Tapuai is the great unknown in that he is a fantastic talent but needs to put himself in contention at the right time. 2012 could have been his year to become a Wallaby regular but he was injured at the wrong time. 2013 could be anything for him, but I'd say he still starts the 2013 season down the pecking order.

This is the worst post ever. Your KPI is tries, but you dont factor in where the teams finished on the ladder. Cummins was absolutely inspirational in the west and had a far better campaign than Rob or Inman for that matter.

Rob Hornes current attacking game is abysmal, and I would say Ben Tapuai is about one injury away from a spot in the 22. Not to mention the EOYT.

 

[nomis]

JOC (James O'Connor) has always played well on the wing. It also helps the rest of the team to get the ball out there!

 

[Braveheart81]

This is the worst post ever. Your KPI is tries, but you dont factor in where the teams finished on the ladder. Cummins was absolutely inspirational in the west and had a far better campaign than Rob or Inman for that matter.

Rob Hornes current attacking game is abysmal, and I would say Ben Tapuai is about one injury away from a spot in the 22. Not to mention the EOYT.

I did compare a player each from three teams that finished 11th, 13th and 14th and all struggled to score tries.

I completely agree that tries scored is a terrible KPI but I was merely using it as an example. I agree that Cummins had a far better season than Horne.

My main point was probably about Inman. The guy is big but so far I haven't seen him do anything at all at a level above club rugby. He is also older than Horne so it's not like he is incredibly young either.

I would definitely give Cummins a crack at test rugby before Horne gets another go, but they may not be competing for the same spot. Cummins is more of a winger than Horne and if selected at 13 I'm not convinced his defence would be of international standard. There is no doubt he is a great tackler and makes big hits, but making sound defensive reads is probably the most difficult part about playing 13.

At this stage I'd say Inman is well off the radar for test rugby.

Tapuai is close to making the 22 again with all the injuries but unless he gets an opportunity this season and really grabs it, I think he will be back down the pecking order a bit in 2013 when more players are available and will have to prove himself again.

 

[fatprop]

This is the worst post ever. Your KPI is tries, but you dont factor in where the teams finished on the ladder. Cummins was absolutely inspirational in the west and had a far better campaign than Rob or Inman for that matter.

Rob Hornes current attacking game is abysmal, and I would say Ben Tapuai is about one injury away from a spot in the 22. Not to mention the EOYT.

If Tapuai had stayed healthy and finished the S15 season the way he started it he probably would have been playing for the Wobs now. Horne finished the S15 scoring tries and was playing pretty well. He hasn't shown enough and is now injured, so Taps may get his chance, it will be interesting to see if he does any better.

 

[abrixon]

Currently McCabe/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is our best 12/13 combo, I'm a fan of Horne however id like to see him bring back that exciting style of play he showed when he first came onto the scene. Moving forward and looking towards RWC 2015 i would be looking at a Tapuai/Horne combination. I dont see too much value in Faainga.

Hoping Cheika will bring some of the insightfulness to the tahs from working with the best 13 in the World O'Driscoll and getting a good campaign out of the Tahs backline.

 

[Bruce Ross]

We all know who you would pick at 12, Bruce. But who is your second choice? McCabe? Can you have McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) side by side?

Perhaps all except me know who I'd pick then, Scarfie. My focus on Tom Carter has been on the fact that he has never been given the opportunity to show what he could or could not do at a higher level, even for Australia A or the Australian Barbarians as they are now badged. It would be an interesting exercise to list every one of the players who have represented the Wallabies, Australia A or the Australian Barbarians at 12 or have been picked for each of those teams as a centre reserve since 2008. Their ranks are legion.

And yes, I rank McCabe very highly. He is the type of 12 who has come to the fore internationally in the past few years; O'Connor is not. I wouldn't like to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 as he tends to die with the ball, not - to anticipate the Carter knockers - in any purposeful way of bending the line and setting up phase - but because his instinct is not to look for support. I believe very strongly that wingers deserve to have their share of good ball, but when you have halfbacks who want to take on the defensive line; five-eighths who want to take on the defensive line; and five-eighths whose preference is to throw cut-out passes thus aiding drift defenders Australian wingers get very little useful ball to work with.

You would think that being largely unoccupied when their side was in possession they would want to show off their scintillating speed in chasing kicks but the thought of keeping warm by doing so rarely seems to occur to them.
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[Scarfman]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doesn't bend the line? Madness, Bruce.

But I agree with the rest.

 

[Bruce Ross]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) doesn't bend the line? Madness, Bruce.

But I agree with the rest.

I obviously didn't make myself clear, Scarfie. I intended "bending the line and setting up phase" to be read together. I certainly agree that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is one of our most effective line-benders and in fact line-penetrators.
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[The_Brown_Hornet]

The team would benefit, I think, from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) being able to offload the ball in contact or at the very least running with the ball in two hands (which creates doubt in the minds of the defence). He has a ton of attributes for a good centre, but the big knock against him is the inability or unwillingness to pass the ball.

 

[Athilnaur]

Having watched the AB's developments this year, I expect that practically every professional coach in world rugby will be developing their players off load skills in the coming 12 months. The thought of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with an offload game is a good one, eh?

 

[Scarfman]

I obviously didn't make myself clear, Scarfie. I intended "bending the line and setting up phase" to be read together. I certainly agree that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is one of our most effective line-benders and in fact line-penetrators.
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OK, but I still disagree. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) might not pass, but his go-to-ground and lay-the-ball is about the best in the world.

 

[Torn Hammy]

The team would benefit, I think, from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) being able to offload the ball in contact or at the very least running with the ball in two hands (which creates doubt in the minds of the defence). He has a ton of attributes for a good centre, but the big knock against him is the inability or unwillingness to pass the ball.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is 28, and has played 71 tests since 2005. It's not going to happen. Elvis has left the building.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is 28, and has played 71 tests since 2005. It's not going to happen. Elvis has left the building.

You're probably right, but I think it's something we lack the ability to do in the midfield.

 

[Scotty]

The team would benefit, I think, from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) being able to offload the ball in contact or at the very least running with the ball in two hands (which creates doubt in the minds of the defence). He has a ton of attributes for a good centre, but the big knock against him is the inability or unwillingness to pass the ball.

Classic example was when vs argentina we got good turnover ball in our own 22. Cooler saw the opportunity and ran at a defender to draw him before passing to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to set up a break. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had just the winger in front of him with Digby in support on the outside. Instead of running at the winger to draw him and then pass to Ioane (who would have made at least another 20-30m if not going all the way), he tucked it under the arm and went infield directly into the cover defense! Since Digby was in support of the pass it took him longer to get to the breakdown and the argies got a turnover (which luckily they knocked on).

It was an example of the big limitation of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a 13, and I don't think we will have a great backline until we have a less limited candidate in place.

 

[Scotty]

Ps Imagine what Conrad Smith would have done in the same circumstance?

Even mortlock or Herbert would have passed to the unmarked player.

 

[Jiggles]

Herbert would have palmed that Argie in the chest, ripped out his heart, and eaten it on the way to the try line. Herbie was the man.

 

[Lee Enfield]

I would like to see a centre pairing of either

12. Tapuai 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with JOC (James O'Connor) at 15 or 12. Tapuai 13. O'Connor with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15.

I think Beale and McCabe should be our reserve backs. McCabe is starting to grow on me and warrants selection in the 22.

 

[Richo]

Memories are short. Not long ago, Beale was one of the best players in the world and winning us games left and right. Since then he has suffered some injuries and developed some bad habits. If the bloke can get fit -- as in, shed the pounds -- he'll find form again. He needs the right support environment to do that, however, and I'm not sure that he's getting it at the Rebels or the Wallabies.

As for the centres, I think we need a balanced pairing. 12. McCabe 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not balanced, or at least not until McCabe improves his passing substantially. Unfortunately, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is easily our best option at OC and Taps is unproven, which means (rightly or not) he won't get a serious shot until the EOYT or even next year.

Personally, I'd like to see 12. Taps 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for the Lions next year. Longer term, it would be great if McCabe played more at 13 as I think Taps will surpass him at 12 soon enough and an aging AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will leave us with another 13 conundrum.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Ps Imagine what Conrad Smith would have done in the same circumstance?

Even mortlock or Herbert would have passed to the unmarked player.

Conrad would have drawn the player and popped a nice pass to Ioane, who would have gone over for mine.

Morts would have taken the ball into contact and offloaded over the tackler for the same result. He was so bloody strong in the tackle that fella. Herbert quite possibly the same. One thing I always liked about him was that he often carried the ball in two hands and ran straight, thus allowing him to pass on either side and keep the movement going.

 

[Swat]

Conrad would have drawn the player and popped a nice pass to Ioane, who would have gone over for mine.

Morts would have taken the ball into contact and offloaded over the tackler for the same result. He was so bloody strong in the tackle that fella. Herbert quite possibly the same. One thing I always liked about him was that he often carried the ball in two hands and ran straight, thus allowing him to pass on either side and keep the movement going.

Nah, Mortlock would have kicked it straight to the opposition so he could line them up with a crunching tackle, roll away, get up and intercept the scrummie's next pass and run 70 meters to score under the posts. Standard.