- Status
T
TOCC
Guest
Its about time..
some of the older blokes like Sharpe should be telling him to stop looking like a douche bag.. I am fully supportive of bastardisation and respect of elders..
some of the older blokes like Sharpe should be telling him to stop looking like a douche bag.. I am fully supportive of bastardisation and respect of elders..
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
No I don't have the foggiest, but I did say "appears to be". I do know a bit about Phil Waugh's work ethic though, he never had time for a decent haircut!
But he is not alone in being an exceptionally talented young person, and just because he is as good as he is, it doesn't mean he got there through hard work. Bernard Tomic anyone?
As for the missing the team announcement/photo, this was the Wallabies squad for the Rugby World Cup. Him missing that speaks volumes to me and I put it in the same category as turning up drunk to play and then punching the ref in the face. It will take a hell of a lot of off field work from him to repair that one indiscretion. I know that may not be real fair, but it comes with the territory. A player that has worked hard for what they have achieved would probably treasure it a bit more and place perhaps a higher importance on being given a Wallabies jersey for the RWC. Just sayin.
It's probably hard for Nathan Sharpe to make comments about anyone's hair.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
Who says hair has nothing to do with playing Rugby anyway. Giteau went from being a douche to superstar when he shaved his head.
George Smith had dreadlocks forever, he shaves them off and they make him Wallaby captain!
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
OK, my two cents.
For me, our backline dilemma's are the centres, only.
Scrumhalf is pretty clear: Genia, then White, then we start praying.
Flyhalf is Cooper, then Lealiifano. After that, we're fucked. Barnes isn't an international quality fly half. He is not the calm steady hand, adept at directing a game, that everyone seems to think he is. His general play kicking is 'kick it and hope'. Beale looked great for the Rebels, we'll see if he ever steps up, but anyway he's a 3rd choice at best. Lealiifano and Cooper are our 10's.
The centres are where the issues are. Lots of people are calling for a ball playing 12, where I think the game has moved on. We've been playing these ball playing 12's since 2002, and for no positive effect. ONE of the centres needs to be able to straighten the line, and truck it up. Doesn't have to be the 13. When we last played the Lions, we had Grey at 12, and Herbert at 13. Now, Herbert was a hard runner and tackler, but he was also very good at distributing. The original Conrad Smith. Grey was...well, Nathan Grey.
Since then, we've had Giteau, Flatley, and a multitude of other 'ball players' at 12, and won nothing. Scored some great tries, but won nothing. I think it's time the Wallabies switched it up.
For the 12 jersey, we need someone who can run like a panicked Wilderbeast when required, but still have enough of a passing game to get it out if the moment requires it. They ALSO need to be a defensive machine, not just in tackling, but in organising the backline in defence.
For the 13 jersey, we need a lightning fast, skillful ball player with vision. Someone who is defensively sound but not necessarily the general. Trying to be the general from 13 is too much to handle.
So, based on those job requirements, my centre combo going forward is this:
12. McCabe/Fainga'a
13. Beiber
McCabe and Fainga'a are vboth perfectly good distributors of the ball. If they were as bad as everyone says, then the Reds and Brumbies backlines would fail to run, yet they dont. The Reds, since 2009 have had the ability to score a try from anywhere on the park, and they've done it with Fainga'a the first choice 12/13 the entire time. Their backline before that could score tries, yet leaked just as many. Fainga'a was immediately picked by McKenzie as a lynchpin, and has remained that since. McCabe has played 12 only for a season and a half, yet the Brumbies backline this year scored a hell of a lot of fantastic tries. Lealiifano was the major player in most fo those, however McCabe (as part of a well coached and confident backline) played the distribution role very well. He even put a grubber through that resulted in a try, something Kurtley Beale's tried and failed more frequently, and with as much success, than the various invasions of Afghanistan.
Beiber at 13, is not as left field as it sounds. We all know he's a centre, who's done a superb job on the wing. However, WHY has he done so well?
On the wing, there is generally far more space than at 10 or 12. He has strike runners around him, and is in a perfect environment to use his freakish skills. Everyone is calling for him to play 12, because we want that ball playing 12, but it doesn't work. Nonu is a monster, and Conrad Smith a slightly built, but very fast and intelligent player. Beiber has the skills and temperament to become the greatest 13 of all time.
Could you imagine, as the opposing defender, seeing a 25m spiral pass go whistling across field, onto Beiber's chest at full speed, in space, with players like Beale, Ioane, Mitchell, Tomane, Speight, Shipperly etc etc, all running off his shoulder? It would be a fucking nightmare to defend against!!!! And yet, with McCabe or Fainga'a leading the way at 12 and organising the defence + belting any poor sod who runs at them, we wouldn't be lacking anything in the defensive department. Something that was a problem in 2010. We had this backline capable of running in tries from anywhere, and yet we leaked just as many.
For me, our backline dilemma's are the centres, only.
Scrumhalf is pretty clear: Genia, then White, then we start praying.
Flyhalf is Cooper, then Lealiifano. After that, we're fucked. Barnes isn't an international quality fly half. He is not the calm steady hand, adept at directing a game, that everyone seems to think he is. His general play kicking is 'kick it and hope'. Beale looked great for the Rebels, we'll see if he ever steps up, but anyway he's a 3rd choice at best. Lealiifano and Cooper are our 10's.
The centres are where the issues are. Lots of people are calling for a ball playing 12, where I think the game has moved on. We've been playing these ball playing 12's since 2002, and for no positive effect. ONE of the centres needs to be able to straighten the line, and truck it up. Doesn't have to be the 13. When we last played the Lions, we had Grey at 12, and Herbert at 13. Now, Herbert was a hard runner and tackler, but he was also very good at distributing. The original Conrad Smith. Grey was...well, Nathan Grey.
Since then, we've had Giteau, Flatley, and a multitude of other 'ball players' at 12, and won nothing. Scored some great tries, but won nothing. I think it's time the Wallabies switched it up.
For the 12 jersey, we need someone who can run like a panicked Wilderbeast when required, but still have enough of a passing game to get it out if the moment requires it. They ALSO need to be a defensive machine, not just in tackling, but in organising the backline in defence.
For the 13 jersey, we need a lightning fast, skillful ball player with vision. Someone who is defensively sound but not necessarily the general. Trying to be the general from 13 is too much to handle.
So, based on those job requirements, my centre combo going forward is this:
12. McCabe/Fainga'a
13. Beiber
McCabe and Fainga'a are vboth perfectly good distributors of the ball. If they were as bad as everyone says, then the Reds and Brumbies backlines would fail to run, yet they dont. The Reds, since 2009 have had the ability to score a try from anywhere on the park, and they've done it with Fainga'a the first choice 12/13 the entire time. Their backline before that could score tries, yet leaked just as many. Fainga'a was immediately picked by McKenzie as a lynchpin, and has remained that since. McCabe has played 12 only for a season and a half, yet the Brumbies backline this year scored a hell of a lot of fantastic tries. Lealiifano was the major player in most fo those, however McCabe (as part of a well coached and confident backline) played the distribution role very well. He even put a grubber through that resulted in a try, something Kurtley Beale's tried and failed more frequently, and with as much success, than the various invasions of Afghanistan.
Beiber at 13, is not as left field as it sounds. We all know he's a centre, who's done a superb job on the wing. However, WHY has he done so well?
On the wing, there is generally far more space than at 10 or 12. He has strike runners around him, and is in a perfect environment to use his freakish skills. Everyone is calling for him to play 12, because we want that ball playing 12, but it doesn't work. Nonu is a monster, and Conrad Smith a slightly built, but very fast and intelligent player. Beiber has the skills and temperament to become the greatest 13 of all time.
Could you imagine, as the opposing defender, seeing a 25m spiral pass go whistling across field, onto Beiber's chest at full speed, in space, with players like Beale, Ioane, Mitchell, Tomane, Speight, Shipperly etc etc, all running off his shoulder? It would be a fucking nightmare to defend against!!!! And yet, with McCabe or Fainga'a leading the way at 12 and organising the defence + belting any poor sod who runs at them, we wouldn't be lacking anything in the defensive department. Something that was a problem in 2010. We had this backline capable of running in tries from anywhere, and yet we leaked just as many.
T
tranquility
Guest
Spot on mate, good post. I am not convinced on JOC (James O'Connor) at 13, but I would love to see it trialed. He does have a very nice balance of passing and running abilities that would certainly open up more possibilities for the back three than anyone else running around at the minute.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Brumbieman, excellent post. When New Zealand first introduced the Nonu/Smith combination I thought it was the wrong way around. However, it has proved to be exceedingly effective. I have posted in this thread that I like 12 JOC (James O'Connor) and 13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) simply because of wanting to try the novelty of picking everyone in their preferred positions. But I think your system looks nice as well.
Why don't you mention AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) though? I reckon if he got the ball 3 times as much (which he would at 12) he would be more willing to distribute.
Why don't you mention AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) though? I reckon if he got the ball 3 times as much (which he would at 12) he would be more willing to distribute.
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
He's an excellent player, certainly. However, in the role's I'm advocating, he doesn't play either of them. We want Beiber in the centres, and McCabe/Fainga'a are better at the 12 role, ie organising the defence, tackling offensively in order to tackle the kiwi ball runners behind their advantage line, so that we get our backrowers charging into a ruck rather than having to skirt around behind it.
In a backline of
Genia
Cooper
Ioane
McCabe/Fainga'a
Beiber
Tomane/Speight/Mitchell
Beale
...he doesn't really play those positions better than those above. Certainly on the bench though, because he can come on and cover anywhere from 12 out with aplomb. Plus, he'd be coming on against tired defenders.
I cant think of a stronger bench than White, Lealiifano and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
It also leaves us with players like Tapuai, Cummins,Shipperly, Speight/Tomane, Morahan etc etc all fighting it out for the squad places/covering for injuries. Which I think is a damn good place to be, depth wise.
Edit: before people whinge, we have to have one of McCabe/Fainga'a in the starting backline. Its all well and good to load it up with attacking freaks, but then our defence goes to pieces. These attacking freaks also need hard, strong straight runners to do the dirty work, and lay the platform for the twinkle toes to work from. If everyone is trying a hop and dance and running laterally looking for the hole, none will ever appear because they're not generating forward momentum.
The wa they tackle is also crucial. The low, granite shouldered hits they put on does 3 big things to an opposing team.
1. They start having a look before catching the ball. If you get absolutely clobbered the first time you catch it, then everytime after that you'll always have one eye out looking for the hitman. This affects the fluidity and confidence the kiwi's will be attacking with.
2. They drop their opponents immediately, giving less time for the opposition to get to the ruck, which means less time where the ball is in their hands, and more time for us to compete for it.
3. Tackling offensively creates opportunity, and pressure. Opportunities from spilled passes, having to hold onto the ball and concede penalties, pressure by giving the opposition less time to think/act. Remember the Durban test we won? Fainga'a had a 4 on 1, which he shut down by sprinting out and flattening Pieterson, and then forcing a penalty the George Smith would have been proud of. It was a game changing moment and it was a tackle, not a fucking chip kick. Or the 5 on 1 against the kiwi's last year, 15m from our tryline. THe only players who tackle like this are McCabe and Fainga'a, so we need them. They're also fanastic team men, who help gel squads together and really set a good example to young players, that you can make it big with lots of hard work.
The last time the Lions were here, the most feared attribute of the Wallabies was their fearsome defence. It was ranked the best in the world, and that is why we achieved, in the space of one world cup cycle: a world cup, a Lions series, 4 consecutive Bledisloe's AND a couple of tri-nations titles. Lets go back to that, please?!!
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
All the top teams have far better defensive systems now than they did 12 years ago. Except maybe the French. The general levels of fitness, strength, tackling technique and stamina are all much higher these days.
Good defense is a given, but the most important thing is to score points, surely.
The 5 second ruck rule is going to speed the game up a lot, perhaps a lot more than we anticipate now. Good teams are going to clear the ball quick smart, and this will sort the men from the boys for sure. Teams like the All Blacks, with great defense and attack will be even stronger.
Players like Ant Fainga'a, as much as I admire his occasional flashes of defensive brilliance, will not win us Test matches consistently.
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
And those who don't make a concious effort to really become a solid wall of pain in defence, will be left far behind. No players like Fainga'a will not win us test matches consistently. They will on occasion, like in Durban, and the quarter-final, but what they will do is lay a solid platform and make it possible for players like Beiber, Beale and Cooper to win those matches. They need the grafters to give them that, like the whole backline need the forwards to step up and dominate consistently.
Torn Hammy
Johnnie Wallace (23)
I agree about JOC (James O'Connor) at 13. The breaks I have seen him make at 12 have often been made very wide in broken play which is the area belonging to the 13.
But he has to prove that he can set up his outside men or we will be wasting our time. His instinct is to run first and then think about passing, so this must change or he will remain an excellent winger. Which is not bad.
That we are always talking about moving him there and him here etc., is an indication of too many injuries, poor depth and a need for another tier of rugby.
But he has to prove that he can set up his outside men or we will be wasting our time. His instinct is to run first and then think about passing, so this must change or he will remain an excellent winger. Which is not bad.
That we are always talking about moving him there and him here etc., is an indication of too many injuries, poor depth and a need for another tier of rugby.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Run first isn't a bad thought for a 13. Especially when it is run to draw or beat the opponent before using your wing.
He set up a try from a 13 position last year like that (he was playing wing for the wallabies, but had move one spot in). Beat his man, drew the opposition winger and passed to his winger to go in for the try (it might not have been a winger outside of him, but there was someone there). One of the freaks will remember it much more accurately, no doubt.
P
Paradox
Guest
12. Lilo. 13. Tomane.
T
tranquility
Guest
Mate, were talking about the Wallabies. Not the Brumbies pre-season midfield.
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
Also, here is Fainga'a's hit from that game, @ 3:54mins.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
I can't agree, Torn Hammy. JOC (James O'Connor)'s highlights reel is full of great last passes - although they've been mainly at close quarters. But that's often how a 13's last pass works as well.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
Is it entirely coincidental that those who are celebrated for big hits tend to spend an inordinate amount of time on the injured list?
.
.
- Status